Liam Goligher turns out to be a wolf in shepherd’s clothing

Posted on by Barbara Roberts

I am angry and grieving about Liam Goligher being a wolf in shepherd’s clothing.

Nine years ago he and a married woman Susan Elzey (a deaconess at his church) were both arrested and pled guilty to committing an offence in a public park. Goligher and Elzey kept this secret from the church for nine years!

Haman at Esther’s banquet, having been condemned to the gallows by Ahasuerus

Update 27 Dec 2023 Aussie time: It is true that Goligher and Elzey were not taken into custody against their will in order to prosecute or interrogate them. But it is also true that the term ‘arresting officer’ is used in the court dockets. The dockets say the arresting officer was Arnold Benjamin.

[End of update]

Liam Goligher was appointed senior minister at Tenth Presbyterian Church Philadelphia in 2011. The 2014 offence for which he pled guilty would disqualify him from holding any leadership position. See 1 Timothy 3:1-13 and Titus 1:6-9. I’ve linked to the CEB translation because it is the only English version which accurately shows that there are no masculine pronouns in the Greek in these passages.1,2 The phrases ‘husband of one wife’ and ‘wife of one husband’ were Greek idioms that meant sexually chaste and if married one was faithful to one’s spouse.3

You can view all the court dockets here [Internet Archive link]4 where AnglicanWatch.com first showed them to the evangelical community. At the time of the arrests, Lancaster County Parks Ordinance 98:19 B seems to have had this meaning: engage in any form of sexual activity in a public park. I am not certain, because the wording of the Ordinance has been slightly revised since 2014; I’m going by the research done by this commenter at Anglican Watch [Internet Archive link]. (For anyone who would like a more detailed explanation, including a number of links regarding the Lancaster County Parks Ordinance 98:19 B, click on the following link: Criminal dockets for Liam Goligher and Susan Elzey [Internet Archive link]. This Internet Archived copy of the entire comments thread was made December 12, 2023.)

Update (December 13, 2023, 19:04 hours CBT) [December 14, 2023: Note added by Reaching Out: If the reader leaves the first link (tab) open — the one to cryptpad.fr — the remaining shared documents should open. I use Google Chrome in Incognito mode.] This link5 to crytpad.fr allows you to view all the court dockets and the Lancaster County Ordinance pertaining to this case. I had to change the settings on my Firefox browser to allow cryptpad.fr to open popups. Then I was able to view Ordinance No. 152 Parks amendment Signed.pdf5  Most relevant is Ordinance No. 98 Parks Signed.pdf5 and here is a screenshot of Section 19 of the Ordinance:

(End of Update)

Here are two screen shots of the court dockets, showing that both Goligher and Elzey pled guilty. The above court docket shows the name William Goligher and gives his date of birth as 14 Jan 1951. William Goligher is also known as Liam Goligher. Evidence here: Liam Goligher [Internet Archive link] — the link confirms that he was born in January, 1951.

In the past I have publicised Liam Goligher’s sermon series about Esther. Esther Sermon Series Digest — Liam Goligher

I have also praised him for publicly stating that domestic abuse is grounds for divorce. Liam Goligher is a PCA theologian who says abuse is grounds for divorce

Goligher has been much admired for publicly denouncing ESS (Eternal Subordination of the Son) as an unorthodox doctrine. I honoured him for doing that: The Trinity: there’s a danger in trying to explain things that are beyond our pay grade

I will now have to put caveats and warnings on all my blog posts that feature Liam Goligher. More work for my already exhausted nervous system. I am angry at Goligher for causing me all this work.

I am furious that he hid his sin from the church for so long.

In years gone by, I had thought of Goligher as a cyber friend and ally.

When I had publicised each of Liam’s sermons on Esther, I emailed him this picture. It’s in the National Gallery of Victoria, my home state. It was painted Rembrandt — my favourite artist. For the top image in this post I cropped it to show just Haman. Here are two more photos of it, taken by me.

Ahasuerus and Haman
In the full canvas, shown here, Haman is small and in the shadows. Esther is behind Ahasuerus’s shoulder.

I hate wolves in shepherd’s clothing! God hates wolves in shepherd’s clothing! While churches may pussyfoot around the wicked, God does not.

If you think it is sinful to be angry against wolves, go here.

When, in years gone by, Goligher had privately told me, “You are doing good work,” I had felt encouraged by his praise. Now I feel disgusted. And betrayed.

My heart goes out to Liam’s wife, Christine. I cannot imagine what she must be going through.

I’m going to pray about Liam Goligher by using imprecatory psalms. In my opinion, Wikipedia’s list of imprecatory psalms is incomplete. Wikipedia says Psalms 69 and 109 are major imprecatory psalms, and others are 5; 6; 11; 12; 35; 37; 40; 52; 54; 56; 57; 58; 59; 79; 83; 94; 137; 139 and 143. To that list I would add Psalm 10:17 and Psalm 70:2-3. Other passages of Scripture contain imprecatory sentiments, such as Jeremiah 23:20; Nehemiah 4:4-5 and Revelation 18:6-7.

On December 1st, 2023, not long after Anglican Watch publicised his 2014 arrest and guilty plea, Goligher resigned from his role as Senior Minister. The Magazine of the Presbyterian Church of America reported [Internet Archive link]:

Though the incident took place nearly a decade ago, it was made public this week by a watchdog group called Anglican Watch.

But both Goligher and Elzey maintained their leadership positions in the church for nine years since the incident. …

The administrator of Tenth Presbyterian Church, Jim Hess, provided the following statement to MinistryWatch:

Dr. Liam Goligher resigned as Senior Minister of Tenth Presbyterian Church on Friday, December 1, 2023. This has been difficult news for the Tenth community. The formal dissolution of the pastoral relationship will be conducted according to the polity of the Presbyterian Church in America. Tenth Church has no further information regarding the 2014 citations of Dr. Goligher and Susan Elzey other than what is publicly available. Our denomination also has a process for addressing questions which the citations could raise. Concerns related to Dr. Goligher will be referred to the Philadelphia Presbytery and those pertaining to Susan Elzey to Tenth’s Session.

The PCA Book of Church Order [Internet Archive link] gives Special Rules Pertaining to Process Against a Minister (Teaching Elder). Click the link to open the PDF in the link, then search for “Chapter 34”.

According to this commenter at The Wartburg Watch [Internet Archive link]:

On Sunday, there was a congregational meeting for members.

Notes:

When the elders asked Goligher about the Personal Conduct citation, he said that he was just eating lunch in the park. He also told them that he takes responsibility for making the situation look how it did. (My note… ?!?!? … arresting officer Chief Arnold gave Goligher and Susan Elzey a citation for Personal Conduct – sexual activity. They both pled guilty.)

The elders acknowledged that Goligher paid the fine for public indecency of the sexual kind. They said that there will be another congregational meeting to officially vote Goligher out.

Tenth Presbyterian Church currently has a budget shortfall of $900,000. See here.

Dear brothers and sisters, not many of you should become teachers in the church, for we who teach will be judged more strictly. (James 3:1 NLT)

Source: twitter.com/notunderbondage/status/1733989867821085173?s=43&t=jwFgHd2opZa-cyL2hI1GzQ

I still think that Liam’s sermons on Esther were admirable. I know people who have been greatly helped by listening to his sermons. I still admire his courageous stand against ESS. I am going to keep all my previous posts featuring him on this blog. I never scrub posts because to scrub a post would be to de-voice all the commenters who commented on that post, and I always prioritise the voices and viewpoints of victims.

Liam has consulted me more than once for my expertise in the area of abuse and the competing biblical interpretations of gender roles. He has privately thanked me for my work. For example, when I published my post Puritans who said abuse was grounds for divorce, I emailed it to him and he wrote back:

Thank you for all your hard work in overturning stones and setting records straight! This is particularly helpful. It’s a battle I’ve fought on both sides of the Atlantic where often it seems the impulse to make marriages last overtakes the physical, mental, emotional and spiritual safety of the abused.

My position, and Dr Martyn Lloyd-Jones’ position I believe, is that divorce is not just allowed but necessary where abuse has taken place!

On 22 June 2017 he retweeted me. I’d publicised my post The PCA’s Position Paper on Divorce is dangerous for abuse victims.

In August 2021 Liam emailed me:

Dear Barbara,

I hope this finds you and your family in good health, these have been trying times for everyone.

I’ve been asked to contribute a chapter to an upcoming book on the Trinity. My chapter is not on ESS as such (someone else has that) but more specifically on the use of the Trinity to support the gender question. I will address from a biblical perspective the teaching that seeks to push authority / submission structures within the Godhead. But I need to map that onto the literature coming from the subordinationists. I can’t think of anyone who has done such deep research into this field as you have and wondered if you might pass on anything you’ve written that might help me. You’ve done this before but I usually read things on my phone and eventually lose them (my bad) and I’d appreciate help if you would.

With warmest greetings

Liam

I can’t recall or find evidence that I replied to his request. Sadly, I may not have, because I everything was very difficult for me in the Covid era and in 2022 I suffered nine months of burnout. I was probably developing suicidal ideation in August 2021. (Suicidal ideation was the precursor to my 2022 burnout.)

I agree with what Bob M said at The Wartburg Watch [Internet Archive link] about Goligher’s bad behaviour in 2014:

In my opinion, a genuine believer can commit such sin. However, if God is truly who he says he is, he will convict of sin (John 16:8), he will complete the work of sanctifying his own (Philippians 1:6), and he is all powerful. That seems to indicate that a man would be under such great conviction (think Psalm 32:3-5), he or she could not function. This idea that you can sin in such a grievous way and it not be revealed is not found in the Bible.

Bob M cited Psalm 32:3-5. Here are those verses from the NKJV:

When I kept silent, my bones grew old
Through my groaning all the day long.
4 For day and night Your hand was heavy upon me;
My vitality was turned into the drought of summer. Selah
5 I acknowledged my sin to You,
And my iniquity I have not hidden.
I said, “I will confess my transgressions to the LORD,”
And You forgave the iniquity of my sin. Selah

Confessing one’s sins to the Lord is vital. But it is just as important to confess one’s sins to the people who have been harmed or misled by one’s sins. And then make appropriate reparation to those you have harmed. (Numbers 5:5-7)

Love without truth is sentimentality. Sentimentalism in churches leads to abuse.

Perhaps Goligher privately confessed his 2014 sin to the Lord. But he ought to have confessed it to the church: not only to Tenth Presbyterian Church, but to the worldwide evangelical community who have held him in such high esteem. And after confessing it, he ought to have asked every person he hurt, “What can I do to make it right?” That would have set him right in God’s eyes and in my eyes.

I am willing to personally extend forgiveness to Goligher if he confesses and personally asks me “What can I do to make it right?” Unless and until he does that, I will keep praying imprecatory psalms about him. May God bring him to full repentance.

Here is a recent report that GRACE did on Tenth Presbyterian Church [Internet Archive link]. The GRACE report does not mention anything about Goligher and Elzey having committed offences in 2014. The report does not mention Goligher or Elzey by name.

I have not read the entire GRACE report, but this segment from the Introduction shows that Tenth has had longstanding problems from having several abusers in its congregation and leadership.

Tenth engaged GRACE in June of 2022 after they learned of the arrest of Bruce Garner, an elder and nursery volunteer, for sexual crimes against minors. GRACE prepared a survey which was distributed by Tenth in August of 2022 to all current congregants and as many former congregants as information was available for, dating back to the year 2016.

Survey responses produced allegations against ten other reported offenders either currently or formerly associated with Tenth. After communication with Tenth leadership regarding the additional allegations and receiving Tenth’s approval to investigate all allegations, the investigation broadened to include the additional allegations received during the investigation. Subsequent interviews revealed one additional allegation of significant misconduct against a former member of Tenth.

This Final Report presents the scope and methodology of the GRACE process, findings and analysis, and proposed recommendations.

It would seem GRACE’s survey did not bring forth any allegations from congregants that Liam Goligher was guilty of misconduct.

I can easily imagine that Liam found it hard to lead a church were there had been so many historic (pre-2011) offenders, and where current offenders were still predating. I can imagine it being hard work — sometimes overwhelming — to try to deal with that as the senior minister. But that in no way excuses him doing what he did in that public park and keeping it secret from the church.

Susan Elzey is still listed as a deacon at the church website, but there’s no photo of her and her name is greyed out.

Screenshot taken 10 Dec 2023, Eastern Australia Time.

My final word is to Liam (if you are reading this). I want you to feel ashamed, like Haman did. I want you to fully repent. I don’t want you to go to the gallows. I leave the rest of your life to you and to God. My former-brother, my former-friend, don’t make me suffer the pain of Psalm 55 yet again. I’ve been down the Psalm 55 path too often already, from other people who have betrayed me.

Endnotes

1 See Man and Woman, One in Christ: An Exegetical and Theological Study of Paul’s Letters [Affiliate link] by Philip Payne.

2 See Men and Women in Christ: Fresh Light From The Biblical Texts [Affiliate link] by Andrew Bartlett. Barbara Roberts highly recommends this book. Of all the authors who are addressing the thorny issues of men and women in the church and in the home, Andrew Bartlett has impressed her the most. Bartlett pinpoints flaws in both complementarian and egalitarian viewpoints. Bartlett believes that in the church women can hold leadership positions, and that in marriage men and women are not entirely equal because husbands have a greater obligation to self-sacrifice (be willing to die for their wives).

3 See my book Not Under Bondage: Biblical Divorce for Abuse, Adultery and Desertion, and the books referenced in note 1.

File notes and links, added February 5, 2024

4 The document in this file might take longer to load, and you might need to click on the arrows on either side of the document for the writing on the document to appear. If there aren’t any arrows, try clicking on Fullscreen.

5 Cryptpad.fr files: These are almost all the files listed in the Cryptpad Overview, and were added in case something happens to the original files, or in case the files don’t load for some readers. On some of the files, you’ll need to scroll down to (or search for) the specific information.

Cryptpad — Overview re – 98-19-B
Magisterial District Judge 02-2-01: Docket — Liam Goligher [Internet Archive link]
Magisterial District Judge 02-2-01: Public Court Summary — Liam Goligher [Internet Archive link]
Magisterial District Judge 02-2-01: Docket — Susan Elzey [Internet Archive link]
Magisterial District Court 02-2-01: Public Court Summary — Susan Elzey [Internet Archive link]
Lancaster County Commissioners’ Meeting Agenda, Wednesday, February 23, 2022, 9:15 AM – Conference Room #701, 7th Floor
Lancaster County Commissioners’ Meeting Agenda, Wednesday, February 23, 2022, 9:15 AM – Conference Room #701, 7th Floor [Internet Archive link]
Lancaster County Commissioners’ Meeting, Wednesday, December 15, 2010
Lancaster County Commissioners’ Meeting, Wednesday, December 15, 2010 [Internet Archive link]

***

For further reading, and for historic interest.

Note: My sharing links to articles at Anglican Watch does not mean that I endorse all the language which Anglican Watch chooses to use in their articles.

So That We Are Not Imposters to Ourselves [Internet Archive link] — Aimee Byrd, 12 Dec, 2023. She alludes to Goligher’s fall:

The church is weary and breaking down from disillusionment. The imposters are too many to number. And this week, I’ve been sick over the revelation of another imposter behind the pulpit. Once again, I find myself looking at the good he’s done, questioning what was real, as I hold it next to unfaithfulness, spiritual abuse, and sexual deviancy. Was it all a charade? What parts of the good were real? …

Lord, why?! Is anyone fit to lead us? Is anyone trustworthy? How does someone preach on something so beautiful while living a double life? Was he for real? What is real, Lord? Who is real?

Interesting comment by Celia Eve, at Wartburg Watch [Internet Archive link]. Celia was a student on the Cornhill Training Course in London in 2004-2005 where Liam Goligher taught a few classes.

Cursing Christians? The Role of the Imprecatory Psalms in Christian Advocacy [Internet Archive link] — by Aaron Hann, June 9, 2023.

The Presbyterian Church in America Has an Abuse Crisis Too [Internet Archive link] — by Emily Belz, Christianity Today, June 13, 2023.

Women thought the PCA, with its robust system of governance, might provide some accountability. They found that was not the case.

Further information about Tenth Presbyterian Church perjury club [Internet Archive link]4 — by Anglican Watch. I link to this article here not because I necessarily endorse all its language and allegations, but simply for information. The article goes into some detail about Phil Snyder’s allegations against some of the leaders and former leaders of Tenth Presbyterian Church.

(Update) Liam Goligher Resigns! Guess Those “Personal Conduct Citations” Were Spot on. [Internet Archive link] — The Wartburg Watch.

Liam Goligher proves he’s unrepentant, sends laughable cease and desist letter [Internet Archive link]4 — Anglican Watch. I am sharing this link for information only. Other than the photo of the lawyer’s letter which is shown in the link, I have not taken independent steps to verify that the letter is genuine.

Liam Goligher, influential PCA pastor, resigns after past arrest made public [Internet Archive link] — Bob Smietana

What In the World is Going On With the Lawsuit at 10th Presbyterian Church, Philadelphia? [Internet Archive link] — The Wartburg Watch, 31st Dec 2018. The article details some of Phil Snyder’s allegations against Tenth Presbyterian Church. I share the article for historical interest.

The Scandal of a Compromised Church — a sermon by Liam Goligher. It is very bitter sweet that he preached this on February 16, 2020.

Pastor of Philadelphia’s Historic Tenth Presbyterian Church Resigns [Internet Archive link] — By Steve Rabey, MinistryWatch, December 7, 2023.

Liam Goligher, Pastor at Tenth Presbyterian Church, Resigns in the Wake of GRACE Report [Internet Archive link] — By Lynna Sutherland, Advocacy from the Presbyterian Pew, December 10, 2023.

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66 thoughts on “Liam Goligher turns out to be a wolf in shepherd’s clothing”

  1. Thanks for writing. I have been sickened by what is going on at Tenth. I was there as a member for a number of years. I left in 2018 due to a move. In 2014, when the issues with P.J. came out, I was in complete shock and grief, having had some musical involvement with PJ & a high level of trust. This latest scandal has left me feeling very low. I am praying for the church and the people involved.

    The citation is real, however we really don’t know exactly what went on to bring on the citation. People tend to blow things way out of proportion and add their own sordid details. Something went on that was wrong! We know that, but some of the comments that I’ve read seem to be drawing extreme conclusions when there is no actual proof! We are to avoid appearances of evil!

    Married people in ministry should NOT be hanging out alone with those of the opposite gender! Anything can happen! We are human and subject to temptation, especially when there are stresses in our lives. I hope and pray that there is repentance! God be merciful!

    [Paragraph breaks added to enhance readability. Editors.]

    Liked by 1 person

    1. Hi Feeling Very Low,

      For your safety and protection, I changed your screen name to Feeling Very Low, as the screen name you submitted with your comment might’ve been too revealing. If you’d prefer a different screen name, please email me at reachingout.acfj@gmail.com.

      Like

    2. The legal definition of sexual activity, from Law Insider:

      Sexual activity means sexual conduct or sexual contact, or both.
      Sexual activity means the oral, anal, or vaginal penetration by, or union with, the sexual organ of another or the anal or vaginal penetration of another by any other object; however, sexual activity does not include an act done for a bona fide medical purpose.
      Sexual activity means an activity that a reasonable person would, in all the circumstances but regardless of any person’s purpose, consider to be sexual.

      Two married members of opposite sex, one the lead pastor who was 18 years the elder of the two, went alone together to a park 2-3 hours from either of their homes, engaged in a “sexual activity” in a park together (see above for definitions), were caught by the Chief of the park rangers (a law enforcement officer), were ticketed (legal term: “arrest”), and shortly thereafter, both pled guilty to the offense.

      After the incident, the Goligher and Elzey families continued to spend time together, and Goligher and Elzey were observed spending time alone together. Goligher and wife moved from PA [Pennsylvania] to NJ [New Jersey] to be neighbors with Elzey and husband. Goligher and Elzey collaborated in court to remove Phil Snyder from membership, with Elzey as the main testimony. Goligher continued in eldership, and Elzey became a deaconess and study leader.

      Now, both individuals deny that they were engaged in a sexual activity in a public park together in 2014.

      Yet the facts are that they were ticketed by the Chief park ranger (a law enforcement officer) for sexual activity together in a park, that an incident report was filed, and that, shortly thereafter, they both pled guilty to a violation of code 98-19 (personal conduct) B (sexual activity).

      Liked by 1 person

    1. Hi Ira,

      Thank you for providing the shareable link. 😊 And just for your information — and no offence to you intended — we don’t normally Approve comments containing links. I’ve made an exception in your case for this comment 😊, as I’ve seen another comment of yours containing the link, although I didn’t have time to review all the information. 😊

      I’m leaving the decision to Barb as to whether or not she wants to add your link to her post, as she’s the owner of the blog. 😊

      Like

    2. Thank you, Ira! What a blessing you are! I had to change the settings on my Firefox browser so that it would open all the items in the link you provided. I changed my browser settings to enable popups at cryptpad.fr. Then I was able to view all the documents. I am adding the link you gave to the post. You will be able to see what I’ve done by looking for the red word UPDATE in the post.

      Like

  3. Barbara, I am glad it was helpful. I noticed you referenced 152 but called it 98. Maybe change that name there — “Then I was able to view Ordinance No. 98 Parks amendment Signed.pdf” … to 152. In addition, I don’t think that most people understand there was a lot of confusion around 98 because it was changed. Thank you for posting this.

    Like

  4. I’m reading all the comments at Wartburg Watch, and for the sake of my readers I’m putting links here to some of the comments I have found most helpful or informative. Many of my readers are so exhausted that they may not want to scroll through all the Wartburg Watch comments themselves.

    Broken Hearted said [Internet Archive link]:

    The abuse of the leaders of this church goes very deep, and the damage and harm spreads further than just the church body and its members.

    R wrote about [Internet Archive link] the way the leadership at Tenth have historically dealt with complaints, and how women’s voices are not taken seriously.

    Eyewitness shared [Internet Archive link] some personal and biblical reflections about the fiasco at Tenth.

    Broken Hearted shared [Internet Archive link] how the fiasco at Tenth has personally affected her.

    Ira said [Internet Archive link]:

    The “arresting officer” was CHIEF park ranger, Benjamin Arnold. He is still there. I have spoken to him personally. It sounds like he doesn’t remember the incident 9 years ago, and they incinerated the detailed records since they were more than 6 years old.

    R shared [Internet Archive link] a public letter that has been sent out to all members of Tenth Presbyterian Church.

    [December 14, 2023: I took the liberty of changing Barb’s links to The Wartburg Watch comments she so thoughtfully provided into Internet Archived links. For readers who want to view the entire, non-Internet Archived comments thread, click here. Reaching Out.]

    Like

  5. Hi Attended Tenth,

    For your safety and protection — and as you requested — I changed the screen name you submitted with your comment. I changed your screen name to Attended Tenth. If you’d prefer a different screen name, please email me at reachingout.acfj@gmail.com

    Like

  6. Hi Barb! I am just so sad reading this. It feels like it never ends. I am so sorry you have experienced yet another betrayal. Grieving with you. I am not familiar with this man, but am grateful for the heads-up. Wishing you a peaceful, healing weekend. 💔

    Liked by 1 person

  7. Barb,

    This is going to be a slightly different kind of comment than the ones I usually make….much as I’d like to acknowledge all the other commenters who’ve already commented on your post, I just don’t — for the very first time 😢 — have any energy to spare. Other people might (or might not?) be able to understand….I’ll get tired of doing something, but only that one thing — yet, I still have the energy to do (and am energized by doing) other things.

    I read through your very thoughtful and excellent post, and I’ve read most of the linked information (articles, posts, etc.). And no insult intended, some of them I didn’t read — like the G.R.A.C.E. report because it’s really long 😊, although I’m glad you included the link 😊 — because I need to stay balanced in my life and I just don’t have time to do everything. 😊

    As well as your post, I’ve read through the two The Wartburg Watch posts — the first one, What in the World Happened to Pastor Liam Goligher, Pastor Carroll Wynne, and Others at Tenth Presbyterian Church? and all its’ comments thread, as well as the second one, (Update) Liam Goligher Resigns! Guess Those “Personal Conduct Citations” Were Spot on., and I’ve almost finished reading all its’ comments thread.

    I was about halfway through listening to the Liam Goligher sermon you linked to in your post, The Scandal of a Compromised Church when something — somethings, actually 😊 — came to mind. Unfortunately, for my safety and protection, I need to omit many details.

    I’m one of the people who’ve been greatly helped by reading some of Liam Goligher’s articles and posts (ESS and paedobaptism, for example), as well as a number of his sermons (including the Esther Series).

    As I was listening to Liam Goligher’s sermon, The Scandal of a Compromised Church, I was reminded of your Blindness Series….it’s almost like — considering everything I’ve read, as well as my own experiences (omitting details for my safety and protection) — Liam Goligher is following the path you write about in your Blindness Series….becoming more and more blind.

    The other person I was reminded of while I was listening to Liam Goligher’s sermon, The Scandal of a Compromised Church, was the Christian man I was in a short term relationship with a shortish while after my divorce (omitting details for my safety and protection). For all this man tried, he was doing the equivalent of following the path you write about in your Blindness Series….becoming more and more blind. Unfortunately for this man, his results are far more permanent….he committed the unpardonable sin and is now irredeemably spiritually dead. 😢

    When it comes to Liam Goligher — and perhaps because I’ve not the personal experience with him that you’ve had, Barb (and no offence to you intended) — I’m more drawn to the idea of a lament than an imprecatory psalm. I’m just not sure what my lament is….

    And my apologies for not writing a longer comment….much of what I’d like to write I need to omit for my safety and protection….and as I wrote above, I need to take a break and do something else. 😢

    Liked by 1 person

    1. Adding on to my comment of 14th December 2023….

      In my comment, I wrote:

      I’ve read through the two The Wartburg Watch posts — the first one, What in the World Happened to Pastor Liam Goligher, Pastor Carroll Wynne, and Others at Tenth Presbyterian Church? and all its’ comments thread, as well as the second one, (Update) Liam Goligher Resigns! Guess Those “Personal Conduct Citations” Were Spot on., and I’ve almost finished reading all its’ comments thread.

      And I wrote:

      When it comes to Liam Goligher — and perhaps because I’ve not the personal experience with him that you’ve had, Barb (and no offence to you intended) — I’m more drawn to the idea of a lament than an imprecatory psalm. I’m just not sure what my lament is….

      I’ve now finished reading through all the comments on both posts at The Wartburg Watch. After I finished reading the last of the comments, I was playing a game of Freecell on my computer (a computerized version of Solitaire) and listening to classical music on the radio. They were playing some music that made my heart feel sad. It’s not a lament I needed….I needed — as is often the case — music to match whatever was happening. I was feeling a deep sadness for EVERYONE involved….so many hurting people. And so many people saying hurtful things. People are reacting, some are reacting from their heart (for good or bad), some are responding from their heart.

      There’s a difference between reacting and responding, although many people use the words interchangeably.

      I’m NOT criticizing anyone. Nor am I a neutral bystander in the way so many people — rightfully so — use the phrase.

      When I wrote above that I was feeling a deep sadness for EVERYONE involved, I meant EVERYONE. I’m NOT condoning abuse, or abusers, or abusive churches….I’m not God — I don’t know everyone’s heart. And right now, people’s actions or comments aren’t necessarily a true reflection of themselves.

      Right now, perhaps God is crying His own tears….He alone knows the absolute truth, even as others claim to speak for Him.

      Liked by 1 person

  8. There should be a place where people who attend or attended Tenth can express themselves without being removed because we are not quoting scripture or extending our upmost sympathy to the parties involved and the pain they are going through.

    I feel misled by Pastor Goligher and the Deacon. I feel they should have been forthright with the elders of the church if they had been ticketed inappropriately. The fact they did not, and continued a charade for 9 years and then abruptly resigned when it became known seems to indicate guilt and no mistake.

    As someone who has attended 10th for decades, I am very disappointed in these two. I bought Dr Goligher’s discs not because I would listen to them intently, I could do that in church, but because he was my only pastor and I realize there was time and financial output and I wanted to help him out. It was all a lie (it appears to me). Just a money grab to prepare for the time when he would be dismissed!

    Everything said above about Tenth is true. I know just what you are talking about. Personally, I always got the feeling women were not seen [as] equals or partners there.

    It hurts me to think the tower office where Dr Boice counseled my husband and myself before our marriage was possibly used as a Pastor’s illicit sex meeting place. I remember how when Dr Boice showed us his tower office he smiled so big, like this was his special scholarly place. Books to the ceiling, unfinished books and papers everywhere. It was truly a place of scholarship.

    I just want to say I am disappointed. I realize the Pastor and Deacon have suffered as a result of everything coming to public attention, I am sorry for their families. Maybe they are both repentant and maybe we will see them there on Christmas Eve.

    But as someone who has attended 10th off and on for 40 years, I am disappointed.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. Dear Julie. I am happy for people who have attended or attend Tenth to use this post as a place to express themselves without being removed because they are not quoting scripture or extending their upmost sympathy to the parties involved and the pain they are going through.

      All comments at this blog are moderated. I and my assistant Reaching Out are careful to keep the blog and the comments threads safe for all victims and all who genuinely want to understand and support the oppressed.

      If you want to know how we keep this blog safe for victims, check out Our Publishing Policy.

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  9. The Session at Tenth have sent out a letter to all members calling for a fast (evidence here [Internet Archive link]).

    I suggest that the men who have been preaching at Tenth fast from preaching until they can preach robustly on all the things the Bible says about how to confront wolves, scorners, scoffers, and fools. I think Tenth also needs sermons on how churches must discipline wolves who masquerade as shepherds and as sheep: 1 Corinthians 5:11 is the applicable scripture, not Matthew 18.

    [December 16, 2023: I’ve taken the liberty of changing Barb’s “evidence here” link to the comment by R into a newly made Internet Archive link. Reaching Out.]

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  10. Karen Walton has made a good suggestion [Internet Archive link] over at The Wartburg Watch. She recommends that the Session at Tenth Presbyterian should all be removed:

    Session may or may not be criminally liable, but they are absolutely morally culpable. My husband and I met with multiple elders over the past two years to express our concerns about Liam and about Session. We didn’t know all the details, but we knew something was very wrong. We begged for honesty and transparency. We knew things were being covered up. And we were committed to being there to minister and to help bring about change … right up to when we were kicked out and excommunicated. (It seems to happen to those of us who push too far.)

    I would urge Tenth call for the removal of Session. Clean house and start fresh. Otherwise, nothing will change!!

    As well as removing all current Session, I also suggest that none of the men on that Session be allowed to preach for a long, long time. And, if any of those men want to preach again, they need to have been demonstrating deep repentance and consistent reformation over a long time. That includes making full and detailed apologies and REPARATIONS to every person who has been hurt and betrayed by their leadership.

    [December 16, 2023: I’ve taken the liberty of changing Barb’s link to the comment by Karen Walton into a newly made Internet Archive link. Reaching Out.]

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    1. Hi R, sorry but I have not yet had the mental energy to read the GRACE report in full. From my skimming of it, I know that Carrol Wynne did horrendous abuse to many, many people at Tenth. I share your wish that Wynne’s sins (they were not just sins, but CRIMES) would be getting more attention.

      My blog post focuses on Liam Golligher because he is the person I knew and have interacted with. I do not mean or intend my post to be taking attention away from other heinous sinners at Tenth. I hope you can understand that. Thanks for commenting at my blog. :)

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    2. R, if you want to share any more details about Carroll Wynne’s alleged bad conduct, feel free to do so here.

      PS. I use the term ‘alleged’ simply because I don’t want to be sued by Wynne’s lawyer or Tenth’s lawyers.

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  12. Good comments by Karen Walton over at TWW.

    Karen says [Internet Archive link] that Tenth gave Liam Golligher a cake at a special celebration to honour his 50th anniversary of being a minister.

    [Liam] got his cake earlier this year when the church threw a party for the 50th anniversary of his ministry. The solicited the congregation to contribute to a gift for him. They might not have known at that point about the sex scandal (though, why not if they were doing the background checks their policy required?) But even then, they were very much aware of abusive behavior toward congregation members. I know, because I personally told them about it! I also wrote to one of the elders on session and specifically said, “This party should not happen! You know there are problems with this guy, and eventually it will come out that you knew and you threw him a party!”

    Karen shared [Internet Archive link] her many concerns about the toxic culture at Tenth, in which she gave the full text of her email to Elder Paul Duggan, suggesting that Tenth should not hold the party to celebrate Liam’s 50th anniversary of being in ministry. I have pasted here Karen’s comment in full:

    The following is the email I sent to elder Paul Duggan who was also a friend. My understanding is that he did not attend the celebration.:

    “Thank you for the opportunity to meet with you and (your wife) this past Sunday. I know there is a lot on your plate.

    I don’t quite know how to voice this concern, but still feel it should be mentioned. When Paul Jones left our church, the real reasons were not disclosed. We were told that he was “pursuing other opportunities.” The congregation gave him a standing ovation, and he was seen off with honor. This became problematic and was seen as very dishonest when the real problems leading to Paul’s departure came to light.

    I view this upcoming celebration of Liam’s “faithful ministry” in the same light. I know of the “power plays” or “bullying” that has occurred, driving people away from the church. I know of the volatile temper, the ego, the dishonesty. I myself have talked to multiple elders who have wished or prayed that Liam would leave Tenth or that Tenth could remove him. And yet nothing is done, and the church throws him a party. Just today we received an E-mail soliciting donations toward a gift for him.

    How does this not feel like another betrayal to those hurt by Liam as well as those who become aware of his behavior in the future. How is it not another cover-up of Paul Jones proportions.

    I know the plans and preparations are in place. It would be an embarrassment to cancel, and Session does not seem able or willing to confront the problem. But I just feel that someone should point out to you how this will look to people if / when these problems come to light. It will be clear to people at some point that session was complicit as they knew of these issues and did nothing while Liam is publicly lauded.

    I do not wish Liam ill. I am not motivated by any desire for retribution or comeuppance. But I am motivated by a desire for honesty and transparency.

    Do with these thoughts whatever you wish. I do not have any other agenda than to share them with you.

    Sincerely,
    Karen”

    My husband and I spoke with various elders about our concerns over the course of nearly two years including – George McFarland, Carroll Wynne, Bill Langford, Bert Fink, former elder Jerry McFarland, Paul Duggan, Greg Olmstead, and Liam himself. We attended Tenth for 17 years, gave the church tens of thousands of dollars and countless hours of service over that time. We’ve seen dozens of individuals leave the church, and have walked with close friends as they were harassed and berated to the point of finally leaving as well. We spoke with leaders about a lack of transparency and honesty with the congregation, lack of accountability, lack of any female input in decision making capacity, lack of vision and direction, and our own concerns about the preaching.

    We loved Tenth Presbyterian Church, and we stayed as long as we did because we hoped to be part of a renewal and restoration of the church to what we had felt it to be early in our time there.

    We were eventually removed from ministry, driven out, and eventually excommunicated when one of our children came out to us as transgender.

    We have long desired and sought the purity and restoration of the church, but I believe that the only chance for that to happen would be painful honesty, full transparency, and the removal of anyone in leadership who has abused or covered up abuse. I have yet to see any sign of such transparency or true will to change. So I lend my voice to those who are willing to expose the corruption I have seen.

    [December 17, 2023: I’ve taken the liberty of changing Barb’s link to the comments by Karen Walters into a newly made Internet Archive link. Reaching Out.]

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  13. Here are two more comments that Karen Walton has made at The Wartburg Watch.

    First comment [Internet Archive link]:

    Our concerns about Liam were two-fold:

    1. When Liam first came to the church we really appreciated his sermons. They were tender and practical. Our children liked the fact that they could understand his preaching. As time passed, however, his sermons became increasingly intellectual and hard to understand. We came to feel that Liam was no longer preaching to our church but felt we were being subjected to the theological debates he had online. There was increasingly an us-vs-them mentality in which we heard other believers and churches being mocked or degraded for having different theological perspectives. This, obviously, is somewhat a matter of opinion and preference. But we came to feel we were no longer being fed, no longer being shown God’s love and tenderness. God became an intellectual exercise that most of us weren’t really capable of understanding.

    In expressing these concerns to various elders we wondered aloud if there was some precipitating factor to account for this change. Was L burnt out, depressed, discouraged from all the difficulties Tenth was experiencing. What was going on?

    Second comment [Internet Archive link]:

    2. We were concerned about how Liam treated people. He could be kind and charming at times but volatile and abrasive at other times. We primarily saw this in the treatment of a dear friend. I cannot go into detail because it is her story not mine, but I saw L berate and accuse my friend, make every difficulty about her rather than acknowledging his part in escalating the situation. He spoke ill of her to others, including to her husband. At least one accusation that had been made against her was proved entirely false, but the harassment was unchanged. L insisted that because he was the senior minister, he knew better than anyone else.

    I was not personally present in any of these conversations, but out of concern for my friend I spoke to several elders about the things I had heard. These elders agreed that Liam could be volatile and was easily angered. They mentioned trying to keep him out of personal issues as he tended to escalate matters. They all expressed at least some degree of agreement with my concerns, but expressed a helplessness to act since the senior minister is not under the authority of Session. One elder expressed his opinion that L seemed, to him, to be sufficiently repentant and that my friend should move on. When my friend had been harassed to the point that she and her family left the church (after 30 years) L gave the announcement of their departure to the congregation and gave as a reason that “God was leading them elsewhere”.

    My concern with Session is that at least some of them were aware of these issues. And yet they failed to hold L accountable. They failed to pursue the matter by speaking directly with my friend. Failed to provide support for people who had served the church for decades. Failed to protect the reputation of my friend or provide any acknowledgement of or apology for her pain and suffering.

    In broad strokes these two issues express my concerns about Liam. I am posting this under my own name because I stand by what I have said. I have said it to at least five elders and have spoken about it to Liam as well. I am no longer at Tenth church, but I loved and served that church for years. I felt at the time there was a lack of transparency and honesty. There was an abdication of responsibility to act in a way that would protect the members of the church. There was a suppression of truth to maintain the appearance of good. I had no idea how deep these issues went, but when I read the GRACE report, I was grieved but not surprised. Everything in the report is consistent with what I observed. The report just failed to include the full extent of the problem.

    [December 19, 2023: I’ve taken the liberty of changing Barb’s link to the comments by Karen Walters into a newly made Internet Archive link. Reaching Out.]

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  14. Re: Karen W.’s last comment, it came to me aa a connection to Mary Magdalene at the tomb of Jesus. Mary was living out a deep belief in her relationship with Jesus. She had no guidebook or historical reference. She simply responded to her faith and intuition. Jesus awaited her return to the Garden.

    Karen is simply reciting what she has observed as truth and a recounting, as Mary did, historically. Unfortunately, male leadership finds it safer to discount the truth of women. Over and over. This devaluation and disregard will be the final fall of the institutional church as it has been in the last decades. Millions of women have their own painful experiences in the local church.

    We women weep and mourn. We know truth. Men disregard and choose to devalue. It is heartbreaking.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. Seeing Clearly,

      You wrote (20th December 2023):

      male leadership finds it safer to discount the truth of women. Over and over….Millions of women have their own painful experiences in the local church.

      That.

      Liked by 1 person

  15. From Brandon [M.] [Internet Archive link]1 over at Wartburg Watch in the comments section:

    I assume most commenters over here probably aren’t big fans of the popular Reformed and / or Calvinistic websites, but as a frequenter of them myself, I’ve been puzzled by the utter silence and “business as usual” approach after the scandals at Tenth were brought to light (GRACE report) and then with LG’s infidelity and subsequent cover-up being made public, culminating in his sudden resignation.

    Make what you will of Ref21 and Rev. Mark Jones, but I appreciate them at least having the care and guts to address the elephant in the room which many in the tiny P & R world I inhabit aren’t doing right now (When A Pastor Falls [Internet Archive link]2).

    May the Good Shepherd care for his wounded sheep and, yes, even the wayward ones, while exposing and protecting them from wolves.

    1[December 21, 2023: We added the link to Brandon M.’s comment on The Wartburg Watch post (Update) Liam Goligher Resigns! Guess Those “Personal Conduct Citations” Were Spot on. The Internet Archive link is a newly made copy of that comment. Editors.]

    2[December 21, 2023: We made the link in Brandon M.’s comment to the Reformation 21 post When A Pastor Falls into an Internet Archive link. Editors.]

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    1. R….and no offence or insult to you intended. 😊

      Your comment of 20th December 2023 contains a quote by Brandon M….and in the comment by Brandon M. there’s a link to the Reformation 21 post by Mark Jones titled When A Pastor Falls.

      From Brandon M.’s comment:

      Make what you will of Ref21 and Rev. Mark Jones, but I appreciate them at least having the care and guts to address the elephant in the room which many in the tiny P & R world I inhabit aren’t doing right now

      Mark Jones, a pastor at Faith Reformed Presbyterian Church, Vancouver, BC, Canada, seems to have addressed “the elephant in the room” from only one perspective….the same abusive perspective and abusive culture that’s caused so many problems….and Tenth Presbyterian is only one example. The following Internet Archive link is to the Leadership [Internet Archive link] page at Faith Reformed Presbyterian Church, Vancouver, BC, Canada.

      From the Faith Reformed Presbyterian Church Leadership page:

      Rev. Dr. Mark Jones (PhD Leiden Universiteit) has been the Minister of Faith since his ordination in 2007. He is the author of several books, including Knowing Christ, God Is, and Faith.Hope.Love. He is married to Barbara and they have four children. In his spare time, Pastor Mark coaches several soccer teams at Surrey United Soccer club.

      (The bold was done by me.)

      After reading Mark Jones’ post, I checked the Faith Reformed Presbyterian Church Leadership page, and what I read made me laugh. I’d already thought Mark Jones didn’t know love….yet he’s written books on Christ and love. Has Mark Jones REALLY addressed the elephant in the room?

      Liked by 1 person

      1. Would you flesh out why you dislike his article and his position so much, as it seems you are saying to me?

        Abusive perspective and abusive culture? Are you talking about him being a pastor in a church? I am confused.

        This is from his article:

        The gospel, which the pastor has been preaching but not believing, is still the only remedy. The pastor needs to not only see how aggravating his sin has been towards those in his life (wife, children, congregation, friends, etc.) but also towards God. There must be a loud, public confession that screams, “I am guilty.” Then, and only then, can there be a loud, public scream from heaven, “you are forgiven.”

        Yet, why is it that so many fallen pastors seem to want to continue to justify themselves rather than have God justify them? Why is it that so many fallen pastors half confess rather than fully confess? This is the madness of pride and unbelief. Sin blinds us to the obvious solution. And, sadly, many pastors who have forcefully preached to their flock about the glories of justification by faith alone know nothing of the reality in their own lives.

        The doctrine of sanctification is obviously important, but when a pastor falls we quickly find out whether he wants to be justified by himself or by God. Justification of sinners is free, but that seems to be what makes it so hard for some. They would rather protect themselves by hiding their sin than let Christ protect them by confessing their sin.

        Liked by 1 person

      2. Hi R, your question was to Finding Answers. I hope neither you nor Finding Answers will mind if I attempt to offer my two cents.

        Finding Answers said that in her opinion the article by Mark Jones was only addressing “the elephant in the room” from one perspective. Mark Jones’s article was titled “When a Pastor Falls”, and it addressed only the situations when pastors commit sexual immorality.

        There are many other ways in which pastors can fall. Some pastors do not commit sexual immorality but have fallen in other ways. For example, while holding the office of pastor they can be guilty of bullying, arrogance, greed, slander, reviling and oppressing their family, their congregants and other vulnerable people. While they are pastors they can be committing domestic abuse and coercive control. While they are pastors they can be committing financial misconduct, fraud, deception, and lying for their own gain or to protect their reputation. They can be addicted to substances — alcohol or other drugs. They can be committing kidnapping, false imprisonment and human trafficking. They may be committing murder — literally — or spiritually murdering souls. They may be teaching doctrines which spiritually entrap victims of abuse into staying with their abusers, and laying false guilt on victims of abuse.

        Mark Jones’s article talked about ‘pastors falling’ as if all those other things that pastors have done (and may be still doing) are of lesser importance than sexual immorality, or as if it has never happened that pastors have done those other things.

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      3. Barb,

        Thank you for the reply you wrote (22nd December 2023) to R. 😊

        R, you wrote (21st December 2023):

        Would you flesh out why you dislike his article and his position so much, as it seems you are saying to me?

        Abusive perspective and abusive culture? Are you talking about him being a pastor in a church? I am confused.

        You wrote, Barb:

        Finding Answers said that in her opinion the article by Mark Jones was only addressing “the elephant in the room” from one perspective. Mark Jones’s article was titled “When a Pastor Falls”, and it addressed only the situations when pastors commit sexual immorality.

        And you wrote:

        There are many other ways in which pastors can fall.

        From Mark Jones article When A Pastor Falls:

        The fallen pastor sins in a greater way if he has children, especially younger children.

        From Mark Jones article When A Pastor Falls:

        The fallen pastor sins in a greater way if he has a larger flock.

        From Mark Jones article When A Pastor Falls:

        The fallen pastor may repent and live as a faithful Christian the rest of his days, but his work will be marred by his faithless actions that led to his public disgrace. His seminary training, including the financial investment, is in large part lost.

        (The bold was done by me.)

        That’s not necessarily true.

        From Mark Jones article When A Pastor Falls:

        Not only his family but his friends will never quite regard him the same way again. True, forgiveness can take place, but the memory of his sin will never be lost in this life. The pastor and his family will have to deal with the uncomfortable fact that people will inevitably discuss his sin. In many cases, the world will have a chance to cast aspersions upon the church because even the leaders cannot obey their own message.

        (The bold was done by me.)

        The sentence I bolded isn’t necessarily true — and the reason(s) people mightn’t (or don’t) discuss the pastor’s sin AREN’T because it’s been (or is being) “swept under the rug”. If the pastor’s shown true repentance, why would there be the need to continually bring up the past?

        From Mark Jones article When A Pastor Falls:

        David was forgiven for his sin against Bathsheba and Uriah, but read the rest of 2 Samuel and you will quickly see his life — and especially his family life — was never the same again.

        Why — as so many people incorrectly do — is David being dragged into the mix? David was NOT a pastor, preacher, minister, etc.

        From Mark Jones article When A Pastor Falls:

        Sin is bleak. And some sins are bleaker than others. In the case of a pastor who commits adultery, it is one of the worst sins conceivable.

        (The bold was done by me.)

        Seriously???? What about murder (by anyone)? What about ANY kind of abuse? Abuse by ANYONE? Etc., etc., etc.

        From Mark Jones article When A Pastor Falls:

        The gospel, which the pastor has been preaching but not believing, is still the only remedy. The pastor needs to not only see how aggravating his sin has been towards those in his life (wife, children, congregation, friends, etc.) but also towards God. There must be a loud, public confession that screams, “I am guilty.” Then, and only then, can there be a loud, public scream from heaven, “you are forgiven.”

        Does Mark Jones seriously believe his formula — that only after following the steps he (Mark Jones) has listed, then God’s going to scream “you are forgiven” from heaven? Can’t God whisper in the sinner’s heart? Or in some other fashion? And how many times has God forgiven a sinner when people haven’t?

        One if the things your comment helped me do, Barb, was sum up Mark Jones’ article — he’s writing as if the pastor is God. And isn’t that the problem in so many cases today? The pastor / preacher / minister / etc. has been put in place of God.

        And three last questions (and thank you to Reaching Out for adding them for me after my comment was Approved 😊):

        Has Mark Jones actually read — and understood — his Bible?

        What Bible translation(s?) has Mark Jones read?

        Does Mark Jones REALLY know God?

        Liked by 1 person

      5. I agree with you that Mark Jones’ post was a bit brazen. That’s the word I can think of right now. He can’t know what sin is the worst in God’s eyes, or what will or won’t happen with a pastor who has committed this or that sin. The post really lacked depth. When I first read it, I was in a tizzy from some other things going on, and didn’t really read it very thoroughly. When I read it over, I thought it had a couple of good points, but seemed really immature and untrue in other ways. Thanks for taking a good look at this article and for pointing out the issues in it.

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      6. R,

        You wrote (23rd December 2023):

        When I read it over, I thought it had a couple of good points, but seemed really immature and untrue in other ways. Thanks for taking a good look at this article and for pointing out the issues in it.

        Thank you — not only for taking the time to re-read Mark Jones’ article, but for taking the time to comment. 😊 And you’re right….Mark Jones did make some good points. I’d thought that when I was reading his article….unfortunately, many people won’t see his omissions, assumptions, etc. 😢

        You wrote:

        Mark Jones’ post….really lacked depth.

        That.

        You wrote:

        When I first read it, I was in a tizzy from some other things going on, and didn’t really read it very thoroughly.

        I hope things are going better for you now. 😊

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  16. Barb, do you have copied down somewhere the passage from the Westminster Confession, I believe it was, as it talks about how people should be careful about talking about problems they are having? I thought that was so unbiblical. They appear to pervert Matthew 18, etc.

    I think you were the one who brought up Corinthians 5:11 being the correct passage to look at when considering people sinning in our midst.

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  17. Here is a comment by UK voice about Liam Goligher [Internet Archive link]. I’m sharing the comment here because I found it helpful. UK voice said:

    I have noticed with interest the contrasting reports over on Wartburg Watch about Liam being “an angel” versus someone who drove families away from the church, I can only say that the same was true in the UK.

    Liam’s tangible, unequivocal confidence in the goodness and grace of God was refreshing. And if you were on the same theological path as Liam and appreciated his preaching, then he was wonderful — responsive and supportive. He was, however, socially awkward and struggled with small talk. That bothered those who wanted a Pastor not a Preacher. And those who would challenge and criticise him faced a very different Liam. I found it really hard to believe their stories — such was the contrast — but they were clearly hurt, wounded… and livid. Most of the Credo-Baptists felt betrayed by his moving theological stance and grew to hate him, vowing not to return while he remained Minister.

    As regards Liam’s directive to protect Jones’ reputation, I think Ryken had an enormous influence on Liam so I dare say the reason for the discretion / cover up of Jones was out of loyalty to Ryken (who had, after all, allowed Jones to stay on for a decade). His friendships / loyalties to the Elders and others would have led to the further cover ups trying to “protect the good reputation” of these men. His own fall’s consequences will have panicked him and furthered a need for secrecy.

    Phil Snyder and others were clearly treated poorly when all they wanted was transparency and accountability. I have read comments from Tenth people which suggest Phil’s rather provocative response made him appear unstable rather than a truth teller, but the truth is now out. I hope all whistleblowers will be welcomed back into the church — with penitence on the part of the church.

    I pray for the church body, and for transparency and humble leadership going forward.

    p.s.
    Liam always felt underappreciated in the UK and yearned for the limelight, but he was also humble — he’d serve and wash up coffee, and help clean the toilets. We watched the interview with Tenth and felt he was out of his depth (e.g. flippant) yet the church still took him. The appointment to Tenth certainly fed his ego.

    Liam was always a bit of a flirt and inappropriate with women. His immaturity with women combined with a predatory female would explain the sexual infidelity. He is (as are we all) a flawed individual. He is not evil, he is weak. And he fell. And a panicked, weak person cannot afford to be transparent but becomes defensive and aggressive. (I do think it possible that being “caught out” scared him, and put an end to the sexual element in his relationship with Susan Elzey. They may well have moved on to a pact of silence and mutual support.)

    Quite how he carried on preaching Law obedience though, for 9 more years, is beyond me!

    [December 23, 2023: I’ve taken the liberty of changing Barb’s link to the comment by UK voice at Anglican Watch on their post Tenth Presbyterian slaps abuse victims in the face, schedules preacher this Sunday who supports alleged church rapist into a newly made Internet Archive link. Reaching Out.]

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    1. Barb,

      You wrote (22nd December 2023):

      Thank you for copying the comment by UK voice on Anglican Watch’s post Tenth Presbyterian slaps abuse victims in the face, schedules preacher this Sunday who supports alleged church rapist to here — I’d read the comment a few days ago or so (although I’d not read the Anglican Watch post and still haven’t 😊).

      You wrote:

      I’m sharing the comment here because I found it helpful.

      I, too, found the comment by UK voice helpful. 😊 In some ways, the comment by UK voice explains a little about why things I know and feel about Liam Goligher don’t mesh with what many other people are writing….and some things I can never know (omitting details for my safety and protection).

      Liked by 1 person

  18. I am a current member of Tenth. Pastor Goligher was well beloved, and many people, such as myself, followed and have learned much from his exegetically-detailed sermons. In his defense, the most serious misinformation being promulgated against him is that he was arrested – the truth is that he was only issued a citation, which is not the same at all as being arrested. A “citation” is a written notice from a law enforcement officer charging someone with breaking a law. A traffic ticket is a citation. In contrast, in an “arrest” a person is taken into custody, against that person’s will, in order to prosecute or interrogate. It involves an application of an officer’s show of force. Pastor Goligher was never arrested, and your reporting (along with others) is incorrectly reporting that he was.

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    1. Hi James Worthington,

      My apologies for using your full name 😊 — we’ve another blog commenter who uses the screen name James.

      No insult to you intended 😊 ….if you’ve read through all of Barb’s post (including the documents found at the cryptpad.fr link), some of the links in Barb’s post, all the comments on this post, their links, the first two posts on Liam Goligher at The Wartburg Watch — whose links you can find in Barb’s post and in some of the comments, and all the comments on those two posts at The Wartburg Watch, you’ll find there’s been an extensive discussion on citation, arrest, etc. in relation to Liam Goligher.

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      1. Many articles including Dee’s still include that Goligher was arrested and that it was an arrest (“What in the World Happened to Pastor Liam Goligher, Pastor Carroll Wynne, and Others at Tenth Presbyterian Church?”) … even though we are pretty sure he never got locked up or processed or anything, and there was a statement by the arresting officer that it likely was not an actual arrest.

        Liked by 1 person

      2. Hi, and you can use my full name. Yes, I’ve read the documents and read the full articles at The Wartburg Watch — and all of those sources, along with maybe half a dozen others, are incorrectly reporting that pastor Goligher was arrested, when in fact he was not. He was issued a citation but was never “taken into custody”, against his will, which is the definition of an arrest. The documents in the public record do only attest that he was issued a citation.

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      3. Thank you, James Worthington. I agree that Goligher was cited, not arrested. I’m not a lawyer, and the US legal system is somewhat different from the Australian one, but I am pretty sure that when a person is arrested it’s because law enforcement is alleging that person has committed a criminal offence, whereas when a citation is issued it’s for a misdemeanor.

        What is certain, from the court records, is that Goligher pleaded guilty to the citation and paid the fine.

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    2. Hi, James Worthington, thank you for taking the time to comment on my blog post. Your comment is appreciated.

      I acknowledge that I did say Goligher was ‘arrested’. I will consider editing my blog post to replace the words ‘arrest’ and ‘arrested’ with some more accurate words. There are two reason I am not going to change it straight away. Firstly, since I am not am American lawyer I am not confident on what words might be more accurate. Secondly, as we all know, different English speaking countries have slightly different vernacular usages, and the average person in the street, who doesn’t use legal terms precisely, might use the term ‘arrest’ to cover cases like Goligher’s where he was apparently caught in the act by the Park Ranger (or the Local Council Officer) who issued Goligher the ticket (the citation) as a result.

      I understand your gratitude for Liam Goligher’s good sermons. I understand your concern that online articles and commenters may be using slightly inaccurate wording. But I think it’s important to bear in mind that many of us feel betrayed and outraged by Liam Goligher’s conduct, and it might be appropriate for folks at Tenth Presbyterian to understand and sympathise with our outrage, rather than be overly nit-picky about our wording.

      The fact is, Goligher and Elzey pled guilty for conduct which breached the Parks Ordinance. That is a shameful thing. And then, Goligher did not tell the congregation until it became publicised by a watchdog website nearly a decade later. That is an even deeper shame. Maybe Tenth needs to sit with the shame, rather than rail against those who do not always use legally-precise wording when exposing that shame.

      Like

      1. Barb,

        You wrote (26th December 2023, “Comment 1”):

        I agree that Goligher was cited, not arrested. I’m not a lawyer, and the US legal system is somewhat different from the Australian one, but I am pretty sure that when a person is arrested it’s because law enforcement is alleging that person has committed a criminal offence, whereas when a citation is issued it’s for a misdemeanor.

        What is certain, from the court records, is that Goligher pleaded guilty to the citation and paid the fine.

        (The bold was done by me.)

        That.

        You wrote (26th December 2023, “Comment 2”):

        I acknowledge that I did say Goligher was ‘arrested’. I will consider editing my blog post to replace the words ‘arrest’ and ‘arrested’ with some more accurate words. There are two reason I am not going to change it straight away. Firstly, since I am not am American lawyer I am not confident on what words might be more accurate. Secondly, as we all know, different English speaking countries have slightly different vernacular usages, and the average person in the street, who doesn’t use legal terms precisely, might use the term ‘arrest’ to cover cases like Goligher’s where he was apparently caught in the act by the Park Ranger (or the Local Council Officer) who issued Goligher the ticket (the citation) as a result.

        (The bold was done by me.)

        That.

        You wrote (26th December 2023, “Comment 2”):

        I understand your [and other people’s] gratitude for Liam Goligher’s good sermons. I understand your [and maybe a few other people’s???] concern that online articles and commenters may be using slightly inaccurate wording. But I think it’s important to bear in mind that many of us feel betrayed and outraged by Liam Goligher’s conduct, and it might be appropriate for folks at Tenth Presbyterian to understand and sympathise with our outrage, rather than be overly nit-picky about our wording.

        (The phrases “and other people’s” and “and maybe a few other people’s???” in brackets were added by me, and the bold was done by me.)

        That.

        You wrote (26th December 2023, “Comment 2”):

        The fact is, Goligher and Elzey pled guilty for conduct which breached the Parks Ordinance.

        That.

        You wrote (26th December 2023, “Comment 2”):

        And then….[no one told]….the congregation until it became publicised by a watchdog website nearly a decade later.

        (The phrase “no one told” in brackets was added by me.)

        That, although some of the Tenth Presbyterian Church Elders and others of “the inner circle” might’ve known the information about Liam Goligher before it was publicized by a watchblog website nearly a decade later. And, judging by the culture of the Tenth Presbyterian Church and the G.R.A.C.E. report that was done about abuse in Tenth Presbyterian Church (see Barb’s post for a link to the G.R.A.C.E. report), some of the Tenth Presbyterian Church Elders and others of “the inner circle” probably knew the information about Liam Goligher before it was publicized by a watchblog website nearly a decade later.

        You wrote (26th December 2023, “Comment 2”):

        Maybe Tenth [Presbyterian Church and James Worthington] need….[to stop]….railing against….[watchblogs and other people who]….expose….[abuse in their church, and actually do something about it].

        (The phrases “Presbyterian Church and James Worthington”, “to stop”, “watchblogs and other people who”, and “abuse in their church, and actually do something about it” in brackets were added by me, as well as some minor modifications of Barb’s words to make the sentence grammatically correct.)

        That. Perhaps James Worthington and Tenth Presbyterian Church — if they haven’t ready — need to read and learn about all the abuse, the improper handling of it that’s occurred (and is occurring) within the SBC (Southern Baptist Convention), and how it was (and is) being exposed by watchblogs and other people. At the moment, it appears that James Worthington and Tenth Presbyterian Church have already been using all the bad stuff from the SBC’s playbook….

        Like

    3. It is true that Goligher and Elzey were not taken into custody against their will in order to prosecute or interrogate them.

      But it is also true that the term ‘arresting officer’ is used in the court dockets. The dockets say the arresting officer was Arnold Benjamin. For proof, I’m showing a screen shot of that particular part of Goligher’s citation:

      Therefore, James Worthington, I think your objection is argued on rather flimsy grounds.

      Rather than you defending Goligher, would it not be more appropriate to pass this information back to Tenth? And also pass it on to Liam if you are able to.

      Since you a professing Christian, would it not be a better use of your time to do what you can to urge Goligher and Elzey to fully repent, and urge the leaders and congregation at Tenth to address all the very serious matters that are raised in the GRACE report.

      If you have any way of communicating with Liam, could you please urge him to read my blog post? If he reads my blog post it might help him to come to full repentance. Surely you want to see Liam fully repent and make reparation for letting so many believers down? Maybe you want to defend Liam because you want to defend Tenth Presbyterian. But defending people who have done serious wrong is not what Christ would do. Christ called out the Pharisees and the people who were turning a blind eye to evil.

      Please know that in Australia it is quite common for Christians to refer to pastors by their first names. I am not showing disrespect by calling him “Liam”, I am simply doing what Aussie Christians do.

      Like

      1. Hi, just to say that it is also the convention in America, to refer to pastors (and bosses, at work) by their first names (to the point of embarrassment). I am not personally in touch with Liam (I am only one of 4k+ members there), to direct him to see your blog. But he might see it.

        As a member of Tenth, I really have no insider information (and Tenth leadership has outright told us not to “ask too many questions”). In my previous comment I mentioned Liam’s “dismissal” rather matter-of-factly, when maybe I shouldn’t have said that, because actually he did resign. Then there is also this possibility: Dr. Liam is an acknowledged scholar, and I can say (this is my own personal experience of him), that he does not seem to tolerate fools gladly. I just wonder if it is possible, that when confronted with this incident, that he did have the opportunity to wait and let it be resolved by Presbytery, but out of disapproval, refused to suffer that indignity, and preemptively resigned — given his British constitution I could well understand that reaction.

        Like

      2. Thank you, James Worthington. I appreciate your information about Tenth. You said:

        Tenth leadership has outright told us not to “ask too many questions”.

        That is telling, is it not? IMO it suggests that the leadership at Tenth has ‘circled the wagons’. I know the leadership wants Presbytery to investigate LG’s citation, then publicly make a statement. I know that the leadership at Tenth don’t want people to speculate until Presbytery has done that task. However, as I understand the backstory of Tenth, the Presbytery has contributed to the mishandling of at least some of the historic, horrendous, abusers at Tenth.

        Urging people to let Presbytery and the church courts system to do its thing, is like urging people to touch the Tar-Baby. If any reader doesn’t know the story of the Tar-Baby, go here: Tar-Baby [Internet Archive link]

        You wrote:

        Then there is also this possibility: Dr. Liam is an acknowledged scholar, and I can say (this is my own personal experience of him), that he does not seem to tolerate fools gladly. I just wonder if it is possible, that when confronted with this incident, that he did have the opportunity to wait and let it be resolved by Presbytery, but out of disapproval, refused to suffer that indignity, and preemptively resigned

        I think that hypothesis of yours presupposes that Liam believed that Tenth’s Session was dominated by fools, and perhaps also believed that Presbytery was dominated by fools.

        I would not discount the possibility that Liam believed there were many fools on Session and Presbytery. Maybe it was Liam who pushed Session to commission the GRACE report. Maybe the Session’s initial responses to the GRACE report browned off (annoyed, irritated) Liam so much that when his citation became known, he simply gave up — i.e., resigned — because he knew he would never get anywhere near clearing out the nest of vipers at Tenth. But none of those things explain why he has not publicly confessed his misdoing in the park that day, and asked the worldwide Christian community to forgive him. (Maybe he is planning on doing that, who knows.)

        But to my mind, his sudden resignation when the citation was exposed suggests he fears making a full-orbed confession. And if, when the citation became known, Liam actually defended himself by saying, “We were on only having a picnic in the park”, that would corroborate the hypothesis that he fears making a full-orbed confession.

        Like

  19. Well, if I can make a quick reply to Barb, because she says, very correctly,

    the average person in the street, who doesn’t use legal terms precisely, might use the term ‘arrest’ to cover cases like Goligher’s

    I think that is what is occurring. Especially because Australian, British, South African (etc.) usage may be different, I wanted to point out the distinction here (in the US), that if you were to apply for a typical job in the US, and the employer found that you had a citation in your record, they would probably think little of it (again, traffic tickets are citations). However, if they found an arrest in your record, that would change everything, and disqualify you from many jobs.

    I’m appalled by the scandals in the SBC, and don’t condone any of that. In truth, I am completely shocked and disoriented by this sudden upheaval at Tenth. The offence has not been made public, and I guess I would have preferred to have the Philadelphia Presbytery sort it all out, then inform Tenth of their decisions, rather than having Tenth possibly prematurely dismiss a prominent minister in whom they have invested greatly, for over a decade, though I know I could be proven wrong.

    Like

  20. I am sharing here another comment I made at TWW. My comment was responding to a comment by “Michael in the UK”. Go here [Internet Archive link] to read my full comment. I wrote:

    I am convinced that faulty doctrine is a crucial cause of abuse and oppression being mishandled in churches.

    That’s why I have focused so much of my writing on exposing and correcting the faulty doctrines that lead to mishandling of abusers and their (witting or unwitting) allies. Expose, then correct. Expose the faulty, then teach the true doctrine using Scripture, by weighing and assessing all the biblical passages which touch on the doctrine that needs correction. Use the whole counsel of God so that Scripture can rightly interpret Scripture. And be aware that some of the faulty doctrines have come from faulty translations (e.g. Malachi 2:16). Use also the scholarly research into the socio-political settings in which Scripture was written.

    My book dealt with the faulty doctrines relating to divorce and remarriage, with particular focus on what the Bible says about divorce for domestic abuse.

    My blog deals with divorce but also many other faulty doctrines that contribute to churches mishandling abuse and oppression.

    Dee [Dee Parsons runs The Wartburg Watch] has focused on exposing particular cases of abuse in churches. I have focused more on the doctrines that cause abuse to be tolerated and enabled in churches.

    In my opinion, the networks of church leaders mutually enhancing each other in faulty doctrines, operating from ‘tradition’ rather than sound scriptural holy-spirit-infused wisdom, is another major contributor to the mess we are in. But I think faulty doctrine is the root cause, and the network of influencers-and-allies is an inevitable outgrowth of the faulty doctrine.

    If I were asked to list the major faulty doctrines, here, off the top of my head, is a list:

    Suffering. Rebuke. Church discipline. Repentance and reformation. Forgiveness. Reconciliation. What is permissible & godly for men, and what is permissible and godly for women. Divorce & remarriage. Can you take a brother to court? What constitutes ‘bitterness’? Anger and other emotions. The mentality and tactics of evildoers. What is a reprobate, and how God deals with reprobates. Spiritual blindness — its various causes.

    Liam Goligher appreciated some of my analysis of faulty doctrines and the correctives I offered for faulty doctrines. That is one reason why I’m so grieved about his fall.

    I think it is quite possible that Liam was out of his depth at Tenth. The nest of vipers at Tenth was very bad, and Liam appears to have been unable to identify and deal with how bad it really was.

    [December 28, 2023: I’ve taken the liberty of changing Barb’s link to her comment on The Wartburg Watch post (Update) What in the World Happened to Pastor Liam Goligher, Pastor Carroll Wynne, and Others at Tenth Presbyterian Church? into a newly made Internet Archive link. Reaching Out.]

    Like

    1. Barb,

      You wrote (27th December 2023):

      faulty doctrine is a crucial cause of abuse and oppression being mishandled in churches.

      That.

      You wrote:

      That’s why I [Barb] have focused so much of my writing on exposing and correcting the faulty doctrines that lead to mishandling of abusers and their (witting or unwitting) allies….My book dealt with the faulty doctrines relating to divorce and remarriage, with particular focus on what the Bible says about divorce for domestic abuse….My blog deals with divorce but also many other faulty doctrines that contribute to churches mishandling abuse and oppression.

      Dee [Dee Parsons of The Wartburg Watch] has focused on exposing particular cases of abuse in churches. I have focused more on the doctrines that cause abuse to be tolerated and enabled in churches.

      (Barb’s name and “Dee Parsons of The Wartburg Watch” in brackets were added by me.)

      That, and both are very much needed.

      You wrote:

      I think it is quite possible that Liam was out of his depth at Tenth. The nest of vipers at Tenth was [and is] very bad

      (The phrase “and is” in brackets was done by me, and the bold was also done by me.)

      That.

      Like

  23. I’m Karen Walton’s husband. I just started a blog where I intend to write in detail about our experiences at Tenth and at our previous church. It may take me a lot of posts to get it all out there, but if anyone is interested in following along, here is the link:

    Transparent: Reflections on church hurt and redefining faith1

    [January 17, 2024: I’ve taken the liberty of making David Walton’s link into a link that is easier to read and uses the name of his website. Reaching Out.]

    1[January 20, 2024: The link to David Walton’s website Transparent: Reflections on church hurt and redefining faith is broken, there’s no replacement, and there’s no Internet Archive copy of either his website or his first post, titled The Beginning. For more information, please read David Walton’s comment of 20th January 2024. Editors.]

    Liked by 1 person

    2. David Walton,

      Before I continue with my comment — and I know your blog is new 😊 — I’ve a question: After reading your blog, I was unable to find a place to enter my email address to receive notification of any new posts you write. And I love the picture you’ve chosen for your blog. 😊

      I enjoyed reading the first few paragraphs of your first post (The Beginning). 😊 You wrote:

      From the beginning, I was as all-in as a Christian could be.

      I believe you. 😊

      And then you wrote:

      All this to say: If you had told me I would someday be excommunicated by a Christian church, I would not have believed it possible.

      I believe you. 😊

      You wrote:

      And yet, it’s what my wife and I learned from Jesus that led us here. Jesus loved those rejected by the religious. He accepted the shame and accusations they heaped on him in order to stand with those who were thrown aside…..Now I wonder if Jesus would rail against our churches just as much as he did the Pharisees. The Christian church has left a carnage of hurting people in its wake, and I didn’t see it until I was one of them.

      (The bold was done by me.)

      That (to the text I’ve bolded in David Walton’s quote). And you and your wife are learning 😊, which is something that can’t be said of many in the present day “church” (and some present day churches).

      You wrote:

      The modern conservative church loves being right more than it loves people. It loves talking more than it loves listening. Despite being filled with caring people who gather each week to think about how to be better, it regularly crushes those who see things differently. Many of those caring people sincerely believe that they have no choice: that to obey God means to insist on one way of thinking, and that to love someone means to tell them they’re wrong or refuse to participate in their lives.

      That.

      You wrote:

      In my family, we’ve chosen to start thinking a different way. It’s brought us pain, as we’ve been rejected by many who once called us brothers and sisters. But it’s also brought us joy, as we’ve seen the difference that love has made. It’s been a long journey, one I’m still making sense of. I want to use this blog to tell you about it.

      It sounds like you and your family are growing as Christians, David Walton. 😊 And I can empathize with you and your family. 😊

      Like

      1. Thanks for the feedback! Adding a way to collect email addresses and notify about new posts looks like it is not a trivial undertaking. I’ll have to learn more about WordPress and how to accomplish that, but it’s certainly a good idea. Thanks!

        Liked by 1 person

      2. David Walton,

        You wrote (17th January 2024):

        Adding a way to collect email addresses and notify about new posts looks like it is not a trivial undertaking. I’ll have to learn more about WordPress and how to accomplish that

        My apologies for being unable to provide you with a more detailed response 😢 — I’m more familiar with the Classic themes of WordPress when it comes to some kinds of website changes, updates, plugins, etc. And WordPress keeps making changes 😊, many of which I am less than familiar with.

        First, some things depend on whether you’re using WordPress.com or WordPress.org.

        I’m adding some links that might or might not be helpful to you. 😊 I don’t know how much you already know, how much you’ve already researched, etc….and the links I’m adding are from WordPress.com.

        Newsletter Settings — This page includes information on how to set up an email pop-up for a website. Quoting from the page 😊:

        In your website’s Newsletter Settings, you can manage the emails sent from your site to readers. This guide will explain each setting.

        (The bold text indicates a link in the original text in the above quote.)

        Use the Site Editor — This page (quoting from the page 😊):

        Using the Site Editor, you can design everything on your site — from the header right down to the footer — using blocks. This guide will show you around the editor.

        You can find more information here. This link takes you to the main WordPress.com website where, under the Resources drop down menu, you will (currently 😊) find the WordPress.com Support menu option.

        There’s a lot to learn with WordPress 😊 ….and it takes time. And from what I saw of your website, you’ve already made a LOT of progress. 😊

        Like

  24. I apologize: I’ve decided that I’m not actually ready to face the responses from everyone I’m likely to get from this. I appreciate the encouragement, but I’ve taken the blog down.

    Like

    1. David Walton,

      You wrote (20th January 2024):

      I apologize: I’ve decided that I’m not actually ready to face the responses from everyone I’m likely to get from this. I appreciate the encouragement, but I’ve taken the blog down.

      No need to apologize. 😊 You’ve recognized you’re not ready to face the responses from everyone, which means you’re taking care of yourself 😊 ….and that’s MUCH more important. 😊

      Liked by 1 person

  25. Here are the original police tickets describing the sexual act:

    Goligher and Elzey citations for sex [Internet Archive link]1

    From More on the Susan Elzey/Liam Goligher debacle [Internet Archive link]2

    1[January 29, 2024: In case something happens to the original link included in A’s comment and the police tickets don’t display, we added an Internet Archive link to the issuu file Goligher and Elzey citations for sex (which was included in the Anglican Watch post, More on the Susan Elzey / Liam Goligher debacle). Editors.]

    2[January 29, 2024: We made the link in A’s comment to the Anglican Watch post, More on the Susan Elzey / Liam Goligher debacle, into an Internet Archive link. Editors.]

    Like

  26. Liam Goligher is posting again on Facebook, without having done what’s necessary to bring him back into good standing before God and man. He is passing himself off on Facebook as a wise theologian. Here is what he posted on 23 Nov 2024.

    I have put three comments on that post of Liam’s. So far, Liam doesn’t seem to have noticed! He hasn’t hidden my comments. He hasn’t blocked me.

    Like

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