The Billy Graham rule, avoid all appearance of evil, and keep women out of the loop

33 thoughts on “The Billy Graham rule, avoid all appearance of evil, and keep women out of the loop”

1. Bill Hybels adopted this rule as well. When I was attending his church it sounded so above board. Then he would go on to say how anybody could hold him accountable in the leadership, again we applauded him. Then years later we find out he sexually harassed women and would yell at anybody who dared cross him.

2. My first comment on this post….

   I’ve read the three posts by Katelyn Beaty on the topic of Unpacking the Evangelical Bro Code, and I’ll probably comment on them later. 😊

   I’m so sorry you had such an awful experience with the young man and the pastor, Barb. 😢 When I first read your story, I thought “How typical.” — the young man and the pastor were using the typical “Christian” / “church” abuser’s playbook.

   In your post, Barb, you wrote:

   Many weeks later, when I gently asked him whether he’d had any further thoughts about our meeting, he told me that he had felt offended by many things I said during the meeting. I immediately asked him if he would be willing to tell me what I had said that offended him. He said he wasn’t ready to do so, and asked me to bear with him. I’ve borne with him, and waited many weeks before asking him whether he is ready to now talk about what I did that offended him, because I want to know so I can repent and make repair if need be. He keeps putting me off. He looks at me blankly as if he can’t even remember my request.

   He more or less ghosts me now, but with a superficial niceness, so that no observer could realise how damaged our relationship actually is.

   I’m not saying that young man (or the pastor) is an abuser….I’d say he is STILL using the abuser’s playbook, following the “Christian Celebrity Pastor’s” playbook — part of the “Christian Celebrity Pastor’s” playbook is: the “pastor” commits a sin that SHOULD (Yes, I know I’m “shoulding” here. 😊) disqualify the “pastor” from ministry, yet the “pastor” frequently returns to ministry….usually in less than a year, and sometimes even receives a standing ovation.

   I’m saying this in a sarcastic tone of voice: “Maybe the young man is waiting for a standing ovation.”

   From my perspective, Barb, I wouldn’t waste time on that young man — I’d say the relationship is probably permanently damaged. 😢 And you’re being Christian, Barb….that young man is being “Christian”.

   1. Adding on to my comment of 17th February 2024….

      After reading all three of Katelyn Beaty’s posts on the evangelical bro-code, I decided not to write as long a comment as I normally would. 😊

      From the first post, Unpacking the Evangelical Bro Code, Part 1: Churches Aren’t Paying Women for Their Work:

      What to Expect

      Over the next few weeks, I’ll draw out some of the most common themes from your stories of the evangelical bro code. I’m a sucker for alliteration, so here’s what to expect:

      Week 1: Breadwinner Bias (unfair pay, deference to men supporting their families)

      Week 2: Billy Graham Rule (sexual propriety and double standards)

      Week 3: Bullying (abuses of power, emotionally unstable male leaders)

      (The bold is is the original article.)

      The part of Katelyn Beaty’s first post that I quoted above summarizes her excellent posts very well. I’d encourage readers to read the posts for themselves. 😊

3. Thanks for bringing this up. It appears that the so-called “Billy Graham Rule” has been worn as a mask by countless compromised churchmen as well as certain evangelical political figures. This article gives a different view of someone well known to have always followed the “Billy Graham Rule”: Lin Wood Whistleblower Interview: The Real Mike Pence, White House Mole [Internet Archive link] This same person also spoke at Ravi Z’s memorial and claimed to be his close friend? It’s turning out that most things are almost never as they appear to be.

   [February 18, 2024: We made the link to the article in priestlyscribe’s comment, Lin Wood Whistleblower Interview: The Real Mike Pence, White House Mole, into an Internet Archive link. Editors.]

   1. Hi priestlyscribe.

      I don’t usually comment on modern day politicians or party political matters (especially American ones!) but after skimming the article you linked to I’ve allowed the link to remain in your comment. Just FYI — in general on this blog I do not publish comments with links in them, and sometimes I remove the link before publishing the comment. In this case, I let your link stand, but I’m not saying I agree with everything in the link. However, the link got me digging and I verified that Mike Pence is renowned for supposedly adhering to the Billy Graham Rule, and for giving the eulogy at Ravi Zacharias’s funeral.

      The Modesto Manifesto or Billy Graham rule is a code of conduct among male evangelical Protestant leaders, in which they avoid spending time alone with women to whom they are not married. It is adopted as a display of integrity, a means of avoiding sexual temptation, to avoid any appearance of doing something considered morally objectionable, as well as for avoiding accusations of sexual harassment or assault.

      In 2017, it began to be also called the Mike Pence rule, after the US vice president, a practicing Evangelical, who also supported the idea. — Billy Graham rule [Internet Archive link]

      Mike Pence’s Eulogy for Ravi Zacharais¹.

      I wholeheartedly agree with these words from your comment:

      the so-called “Billy Graham Rule” has been worn as a mask by countless compromised churchmen as well as certain evangelical political figures.

      ¹[We’ve added an Internet Archive link to Mike Pence’s Eulogy for Ravi Zacharias here [Internet Archive link], although there’s no video. Editors.]

4. Dear sister. Could I write and ask some questions of you. Thanks, Paul.

   1. Hello Paul, I prefer you ask questions of me by commenting at this blog.

      1. Thank you for agreeing for me to write you. First I would like to say that I respect and honour the good work you do through your ministry. Second that I agree with everything I have read on your site and that you and all other sisters, brothers and children who have suffered abuse at the hands of professing Christians have my heart felt sympathy. I believe that where spiritual abuse exists that all other forms of abuse exist.

         One more thing I am a man and honour the important role that all females bring to the body of Christ. You are not inferior to me or any man but our equals in Christ. Stop allowing hypocritical men to Lord it over you, use and abuse you.

         My wife [name redacted] and I are both born again. We attend an independent Pentecostal Church and hold to Reformed Arminian doctrine. I only say this to help you understand where I am coming from. We respect and have learned some good things from our brothers and sisters in Christ who hold to different secondary convictions than we do which includes some within Calvinism and OSAS [Once Saved Always Saved]. Please do not take any offence and understand I am not writing to sow discord over these matters.

         In the past I was diagnosed with Complex P.T.S.D which has affected my faith. However I have experienced much grace and healing but am a work in process. One of the reasons which contributed to this was spiritual abuse which I suffered as a new Christian. My wife and I have been married [over one decade] now and have a good marriage. Both of us were divorced in the past and both our previous spouses have also remarried. As you understand divorce brings trauma and this is not helped due to the attitudes and actions of some professing believers who appear to advocate that God is the author and approver of sin, which He is not, and that He is the author and approver of the abuse of spouses and children, which He is not. In my opinion Jude verses 3-5 would explain who these people are as they seek to justify their sins and the abuse of others through their grace perversion false Gospel and doctrine of devils. Some act in ignorance as they wrongly divide the word of truth and others deceitfully handle it as they are wolves.

         I understand that no one is perfect or sinless and that we can all fall into sin. This is not what I am talking about but am agreeing with those who expose those who live in habitual sin in these matters. I too am a sinner saved by grace.

         My wife and I, due to our faith, have studied as best we can what the Bible teaches about marriage, divorce and remarriage. We counselled with our Pastor who we respect and honour and read some Christian books on this topic by teachers from various Christian traditions. Some were Reformed and others Arminian or Pentecostal. What we discovered is that they all more or less agreed with what we had discovered and with what I understand you teach.

         I would personally recommend three ministries on this matter. J.E Adams book “Marriage, Divorce, and Remarriage in the Bible”. The teaching of online ministry “SafeGuardYourSoul”, and “Divorce: Gods Will?” by Stephen Gola. [Please see these links for why we don’t recommend these ministries and / or books. Christian Authors and Ministries in Our Hall of Blind Guides and Books in our Hall of Blind Guides. Editors.]

         As for our Pastor, it was his opinion that my wife and I were not in sin when we married and has been supportive of our marriage.

         It is our conviction that divorce and remarriage are allowed for the following reasons.

         1) The innocent spouse can divorce and if they chose remarry without sin on the conditions of sexual sin, unjust desertion and actions of abuse. 1 Corinthians 7:27-28.

         2) The repentant guilty spouse can also remarry without sin if they are free from obligations to reconcile. 1 Corinthians 7:27-28.

         3) All who have wrongly divorced and remarried have committed the sin of adultery, however the new marriage is binding and if they repent they are called to remain in the new marriage according to Deuteronomy 24:1-4. They are not living in ongoing adultery.

         However we also believe that when Jesus and the religious leaders discussed Deuteronomy 24:1-4 and the topic of marriage, divorce, and remarriage that the fundamental thing He called an act of adultery was that the religious rulers and others had separated from their spouse and [did] not give the bill of divorce which was a form of abuse as this kept the woman in bondage and remarried. Jesus was not condemning divorce and remarriage but calling these guys out for getting married to another when they had not been divorced. [Recommendation redacted. Editors.]

         We believe that the people of the institution are more important to God than the institution.

         There is no law in scripture which prevents a forgiven sinner of any other sin from marriage, so why make one up when it comes to forgiven sinners who violated the covenant of marriage. If one is free then both are free. If one is bound then both are bound. I can’t be married to my wife when she is not married to me.

         Human marriage is based on spiritual marriage. In the Old Covenant God divorced His people or bride for spiritual adultery, unjust desertion and actions of abuse towards Him. He said “she is not my wife and I am not her husband”.

         Does God call us to be more forgiving and faithful and holy than He is? God is a divorced person, if that is a suitable term to use, and is not barred from church membership or ministry so why are some divorced and remarried persons barred. Is JESUS who is God not fit to be head of His Church?

         Our spiritual marriage is a conditional covenant and so is human marriage. God is always the innocent spouse when it comes to spiritual divorce. Remember the ten virgins.

         If God can divorce without sin then so can we. If God can remarry then so can we.

         Is God hard-hearted because He divorces those who are not committed to Him? Will anyone accuse Him of hardness of heart? Stop making the same presumptions about all divorced and remarried [people]. According to some God is going to Hell, a habitual adulterer, should be disciplined, is backslidden, not fit to be a member of His own Church, and Jesus unfit to hold Church office as He is divorced. It’s so good to be more holy than God just because you have never been divorced and / or remarried had your spouse commits sexual sin, deserts you or abuses you. Or better still, because your poor wife does not know you attend the local brothel. Men where do you read “husbands abuse your wife as Christ abused the church” or “be unfaithful to your wife as Christ is unfaithful to the church” or “desert your wife as Christ deserts the church”. If sin separates from Jesus why not in our marriages? Quote what shall separate us from the love of Christ all you want then read the sin list in the New Testament and tell me sin will not. Is Jesus coming for a wife who is in bed with Satan?

         With this said I recently come across a cult, in my opinion, called “Divine Divorce” who claim that all divorced and remarried persons are Hell-bound unless they divorce, live single and / or reconcile with first spouse. They even go as far to say that if your ex dies one minute before you and you then die, they go to Hell but you to Heaven, Chapter and verse please.

         Recently I have been completing a study on the Law due to some scriptures some claim present God as evil and cruel. These include the verses about slavery, the death penalty and a woman being forced to marry her rapist.

         I believe that the Holy Spirit revealed to me the following points.

         1) The God of the Old Covenant or Law is the same as the New [Covenant].

         2) Under the Law there was atonement for sins in the same way there is under grace.

         3) God made lots of calls to sinners under the Law with the promise of forgiveness, and

         4) David was guilty of two death-penalty sins but found mercy and atonement. He was not put to death.

         5) Joseph, before he understood his wife to be was pregnant with the Messiah, was minded to put her away in secret as he did not wish to make a public example of her and was called a just man due to the mercy he planned to show.

         Under the Law there was mercy, grace and forgiveness for sins.

         I could give other examples but do not believe that God was some hard-hearted God who had no love mercy and grace under the Law. In my opinion some have wrongly divided the Law and deceitfully handled it. Just like the religious rulers of Christ’s earthly ministry. I understand that slavery was not some form of sinful human trafficking and that beating slaves was not sadistic but [a] form of corporal punishment, that they were to be treated well and that God did not approve of this. I come to understand that the case of rape could not be rape as a rapist could be put to death but refers to a single man seducing a single woman who was not engaged, and that the death penalty did not have to be administered. There was mercy and those offended could forgive. The problem is that when you have unsaved persons who have not the Holy Spirit inside they will always wrongly divide and deceitfully handle the word of truth as the religious leaders did with the Law. I do not believe that Jesus contradicted the Law He gave, but gave the right interpretation of it. The Law and whole counsel of God in the hands of sinful men will always result in doctrines of demons. Only the Holy Spirit can reveal the heart of God in His word. This is why I believe there is so much confusion and abuse in the church.

         I would like to ask the following questions which I will respect your response to and [I] am open to change.

         1) Would you agree with my convictions about divorce and remarriage?

         2) As I understand it under the Law, divorce and remarriage was allowed. But there appears to be two restrictions. It appears that in the case where a single man and woman had sex outside of marriage that the man would have two choices. He had to pay the bride money as a punishment or if the woman, her dad and he agreed they could marry. I do not believe they were forced to marry or that this was a shot-gun wedding. If they married he was not allowed to divorce her. But it does not say she could not divorce him. This dealt with “walk-away Joes”.

         3) I think also if a man made [the] false accusation his wife was not a virgin that the same restriction was applied.

         4) This was not the rule for all as we see in Deuteronomy 24:1-4.

         My questions are:

         1) Could the wife divorce the man in such cases?

         2) If they did divorce could both remarry?

         3) I feel that due to the mercy of God that if they did divorce and remarry that Deuteronomy 24:1-4 applied and the new marriage was binding. I can think of no scriptures which called for them to divorce a second marriage under such cases or death penalty. No doubt the Jews had many schools of thought on this. I understand that in the Bible it usually speaks of a man putting away his wife. But I feel these verses apply to both genders and do not believe that you girls are second-class citizens in the kingdom.

         4) How can we apply these principles today under grace? Should we teach that all who wrongly ended betrothal and married another should end their marriage and marry the person they were betrothed to?

         5) Should we teach that anyone who had sex with another before marriage should end the marriage to marry them?

         6) Should we teach that anyone who had sex outside of marriage with their spouse and end up divorced and remarry must break up their marriage?

         7) Where do we see such teaching in the New Testament? I have never heard any teach this.

         As I see it, all divorced and remarried persons under the Law were considered to be in a new binding marriage which they were called to honour according to Deuteronomy 24:1-4 and that the same principle applies under grace according to 1 Corinthians 7:27-28, and as we are called to remain in our called circumstances.

         If we keep the whole Law and break it in one point we are guilty of breaking it all and the Law is a school master to point us to Christ and by the deeds of the Law no flesh shall be Justified in His sight.

         Could you provide me with some insight into these please, and would you agree? Next question: Could you explain the Betroval Theory to me and why it’s not correct as I can’t find J.E Adams’ book who made good comments on why it was wrong. [See the above links to our Hall of Blind Guides for more information on Jay Adams. Editors.] As I see it 1 Corinthians 7:27-28 covers all divorce and remarriage.

         One more point which might interest you. In Romans 7 some like to wrongly apply the first three verses teaching unconditional marriage vows and that only death can end a marriage. We know that Paul was not teaching about marriage, divorce, and remarriage and that he was using the conditional covenant of marriage to show us death ends a marriage and the spouse is free so we are no longer under the Law but grace. But let’s take it a step further. The Law, which is holy, good, and just taught in Deuteronomy that divorce also ended a marriage just as death and that those who were given the divorce certificate could remarry and the new marriage was binding. This also proves the wrong division some make of this.

         One more thing. When I made comment about Jesus teaching that the men had separated from their wife and not given the certificate of divorce, the exception was for sexual sin as in marriage.

         Sorry for the long-winded writing but I covet your input.

         P.S. Could you pass on the scriptures which support divorce for abuse also please.
         Thank you for your time, brother Paul.

         [For safety and protection, some details have been airbrushed or redacted. Some paragraph breaks were added and some editing was done to enhance readability. Editors.]

      2. Hi Paul,

         I agree that there are three the biblical grounds for divorce: sexual sin, unjust desertion and abuse, and the innocent spouse is free to remarry after divorce. However, I do not find any of those grounds for divorce in 1 Corinthians 7:27-28. I argue that 1 Corinthians 7:15 allows divorce for unjust desertion and abuse, and Matthew 19:3-9 allows divorce for sexual sin. The best way to grasp my arguments is to read my book Not Under Bondage: Biblical Divorce for Abuse, Adultery and Desertion, but I summarise my case that abuse is grounds for divorce here.

         I agree with you that a repentant guilty spouse can remarry without sin if they are free from obligations to reconcile. However, I have learned that in the case of abusers, it is wise to be suspicious of claims that they are repentant. See here

         I agree that all who have wrongly divorced and remarried have committed the sin of adultery, however the new marriage is binding and if they repent they are called to remain in the new marriage. But I do not base my argument for that on Deuteronomy 24:1-4. I don’t think Deuteronomy 24 is addressing the sin of adultery, rather, it is prohibiting a particular kind of remarriage. Deuteronomy 24:1-4 says that if a man divorces his wife and she marries another man and that second marriage terminates, the first man is not allowed to remarry her. This law forbade the practice of men mistreating their wives by frivolous divorce and in effect pimping out their wives. That kind of legal procedure takes place in some Muslim cultures still today — the man gets the Imam to grant him a divorce, then pimps her to another man for a night, then remarries her the next day. In Islam that is considered legal because it’s done by divorce and remarriage! Deuteronomy 24:1-4 protects women and it stops the institution of marriage from being debased.

         I strongly disagree with this view of yours:

         we also believe that when Jesus and the religious leaders discussed Deuteronomy 24:1-4 and the topic of marriage, divorce, and remarriage that the fundamental thing He called an act of adultery was that the religious rulers and others had separated from their spouse and [did] not give the bill of divorce which was a form of abuse as this kept the woman in bondage and remarried. Jesus was not condemning divorce and remarriage but calling these guys out for getting married to another when they had not been divorced.

         To understand why I disagree, please read my post Does Scripture differentiate between ‘putting away’ and ‘divorce’?

         Also read The Bible uses different words for divorce but they all mean legal divorce. Those who tell you otherwise are mistaken.

         In my view, Stephen Gola’s arguments are unsound. He wrongly claims that word meanings are the key to disentangling the knotty divorce passages. He is wrong in saying that ‘putting away’ is different from ‘divorce’. I do not recommend his book. Even though his book argues that abuse is grounds for divorce, he makes many logical and exegetical errors in his argumentation to arrive at that conclusion. His views on intercultural marriages are very strange, almost racist. And his charismatic approach to “soul ties” lacks understanding of the way the abuser manipulates the victim to brainwash her. He recommends people I would never recommend, namely, Marilyn Hickey, Kenneth Copeland, Joyce Meyer, and Focus on the Family.

         I agree that God divorced spiritually-adulterous Israel because Israel had deserted Him, flouted His covenant, and unjustly abused and trampled on all His guidance and loving-kindness. God did not sin in so doing. He was not “hard-hearted”. He was the innocent party.

         The issue of hard-heartedness in divorce has been greatly misunderstood, and that misunderstanding has unjustly stigmatised the innocent spouse who divorces the guilty spouse. I encourage you to read my post Jesus did NOT say “Hardness of heart is grounds for divorce”. Deuteronomy 24 has been greatly misunderstood.

         You mentioned a group called “Divine Divorce” who claim that all divorced and remarried persons are Hell-bound unless they divorce, live single and / or reconcile with first spouse. That group is definitely a cult! I’ve heard of many such groups; they all say similar things and they are all wrong. They compound the suffering of many innocent spouses.

         I agree that the God of the Old Covenant or Law is the same as the New Covenant.

         I agree that under the Law there was atonement for sins in the same way there is under grace.

         I agree that God made lots of calls to sinners under the Law with the promise of forgiveness.

         I agree that David was guilty of two death-penalty sins but he found mercy and atonement. He was not put to death.

         I believe that Joseph was minded to put Mary away without subjecting her to the Shammaite version of divorce which would entail accusing her of fornication in a Jewish court of law. If he had gone ahead and divorced her, he would have used the Akiba method of divorce “divorce for any matter” (in which there was no need to publicly accuse her of sexual sin because the phrase “any matter” is so broad that it does not need to be proven), and Joseph would have used the Akiba method because he was a just man, i.e., his kindness tempered his righteousness.

         I agree that some have wrongly divided the Law and deceitfully handled it. The religious rulers were doing this when Christ was on earth. I believe that many or most religious leaders in Christianity are still doing it today. I agree that when you have unsaved persons who have not the Holy Spirit inside, they will always wrongly divide and deceitfully handle the word of truth as the religious leaders did with the Law. Hence the need for my book and this blog. The problem is, puffed up people think they don’t need to be educated. They don’t see the need. They think they have it all figured out. Or they can’t be bothered to be challenged and learn because they would rather pursue their hedonistic pursuits or amass brownie points which make them look better than other church goers.

         Like you, I do not believe that Jesus contradicted the Law, but gave the right interpretation of it.

         In ancient Israel they did not practice slavery like the world did in the eighteen century and many parts of the world still does today. For Israelites, it was more like indentured servitude with a time limit on the service, and obligations on both the master and the servant. Exodus 21 contains a fair swag of the slavery laws in the Old Testament, and one of its verses may have been mistranslated. See Protecting women from abuse. Has Exodus 21:10 been mistranslated in most English versions of the Bible?

         On rape, see these posts:

         The Bible’s view on premarital sex – is the remedy always “get married”?

         Should I marry a man just because we had sex?

         She did not cry out while being raped … so is she guilty?

         Old Testament Law said that if a man and an un-betrothed woman had sex outside of marriage, the man would have two choices. He had to pay the bride money as a punishment or if the woman, her dad, and he agreed, they could marry. They were not forced to marry, this was not a shot-gun wedding. If they married he was not allowed to divorce her, and that was for the woman’s social and financial security because to be a non-virginal never-married woman was to be subjected to great stigma in that culture. The Law does not say she could not divorce him. I agree that this Law dealt with “walk-away Joes”. Thanks for that good expression which sums this law up!

         The Old Testament Law says if a man falsely claimed that his wife was not a virgin when he married her, he was never allowed to divorce her. But that does not imply she was forbidden to obtain a divorce from him should he become abusive or neglect her basic needs (food, clothing, and a place to live).

         In the two laws which forbid the husband from divorcing his wife, the prohibition on divorce is to provide for the woman’s social and financial security.

         The Old Testament does not specifically legislate either for or against a woman divorcing her husband. The Jews thought that because Deuteronomy 24:1 mentions a husband writing a divorce certificate and giving it to his wife, the divorce certificate could only be written by the husband, not the wife. This was eisegesis on their part, but it was consistent with other Ancient Near East cultures where only men could instigate legal divorce. However, there is documentary evidence from a few centuries before Christ showing that Jewish women who were being mistreated by their husbands were obtaining divorces by appealing to a Jewish court to pressure and if necessary even use flogging to compel the husband to write a divorce certificate. Some Jewish women did obtain divorce that way, but it was not all that common. The Jewish sages interpreted Exodus 21:10-11 as allowing divorce for neglect and abuse, and their interpretation upheld the rights of women to be treated fairly in marriage. I cover this in my book, and I cite Instone-Brewer’s scholarly work which gives the ancient documentary evidence of Jewish women obtaining divorce.

         It was normal and expected for women to remarry after divorce. The Jewish divorce certificate always stated, “You are free to marry any man”. So a divorced woman’s remarriage was presumed. It was considered normal for a divorced woman to remarry. A man likewise could remarry after divorce, and that was common. The man did not need a certificate of divorce in order to marry another wife, as polygamy was accepted in Old Testament times. However, a man could not support more than one wife unless he had enough income / resources to support more than one wife.

         There is NO scripture in the Old Testament or New Testament which calls for anyone who has divorced and remarried to put an end to that second marriage by divorce.

         It is the doctrine of devils to teach that all who wrongly ended betrothal and married another should end their marriage and marry the person they were betrothed to.

         It is the doctrine of devils to insist that the parties to a second marriage get divorced so they can remarry their original spouses.

         All divorced and remarried persons under the Law were considered to be in a new binding marriage which they were called to honour (though you are wrong to think that Deuteronomy 24:1-4 supports this idea, it does not; see my remarks about Deuteronomy 24 above).

         You are right in discerning that Betrothal Theory is not correct. I cover this in my book, so I suggest you get a copy of my book.

         In my book, I did refer to Jay Adams’ book Divorce and Remarriage. He did explain why the Betrothal Theory was wrong. However, while I agree with some of what Adams said in his book, he has done a lot of harm with his teaching on Nouthetic Counselling, aka to Biblical Counselling. See here.

         I address Romans 7 in my book and come to similar conclusions to you about how Romans 7 has been twisted to teach the harmful idea divorce is not allowed or is ineffective because death is the only thing that can end a marriage. Marriage can be ended by divorce. The mistreated spouse is not obligated to remain in a horrific marriage until the wicked spouse dies.

      3. Thank you, sister. I will read through your teaching. By the way, the teachers you mentioned in [the] Brother Gola book, I totally agree with you about. I am not that kind of Pentecostal and consider them false. If ok, can I ask some more questions in [the] near future? Am [out?] of work at present due to the passing of my dear mum. Thank you for your time.

      4. Yes it’s okay for you to ask me more questions, Paul.

         It might seem strange to some readers that I’m having this convo with Paul by means of blog comments. But Paul’s questions are the kinds of questions that others have too, so it can be educational for readers to observe our conversation. 🙂

      5. Paul, you mentioned that you appreciate the teaching of the online ministry “SafeGuardYourSoul”. I looked it up and I see that they promote the KJV as the best English translation. They also criticise the Geneva Bible.

         I am not all that enamoured with the KJV. For the New Testament, I prefer the New Matthew Bible which is William Tyndale’s translation gently updated into modern English.

         The KJV has errors, including the mistranslation of Malachi 2:16 and it inaccurately translated of Deuteronomy 24:1-4.

         I am convinced that the Geneva Bible brought in lots of legalistic and unsound teaching. I would go so far as to say it was written from a wrong spirit. I encourage you to read this article by Ruth Magnusson Davis. The Puritan Rejection of the Tyndale / Matthew Bible [Internet Archive link]

         And also this one: How the Puritans Re-wrote the Bible to Forbid Ceremonies and Song.

         In her book The Story Of The Matthew Bible Part 2, Ruth Magnusson Davis goes into great detail about how the Geneva Bible distorted and twisted so many things.

      6. Barb,

         In your comment of 26th February 2024, you wrote:

         I am convinced that the Geneva Bible brought in lots of legalistic and unsound teaching. I would go so far as to say it was written from a wrong spirit. I encourage you to read this article by Ruth Magnusson Davis. The Puritan Rejection of the Tyndale / Matthew Bible [Internet Archive link]

         (The italics are in the original comment, and the bold was done by me.)

         That. And thank you for the link to Ruth Magnusson Davis’s article, The Puritan Rejection of the Tyndale / Matthew Bible. 😊 Although I’m only a short way into her article, that’s enough (combined with some of the other posts and articles by Ruth Magnusson Davis that I’ve read), for me to say that I agree with you. 😊

         And from the bit I’ve read in Ruth Magnusson Davis’s article, The Puritan Rejection of the Tyndale / Matthew Bible, I’d say the Puritans were erasing God and Jesus Christ from the Bible. As I was reading, I said to myself (about the Puritans re-writing the Bible): “What Bible were they reading before they wrote their own?” And I laughed out loud (and not in a positive way), thinking it sounds so much like some people today….people like Wayne Grudem, etc.

   2. Hi Paul,

      For your safety and protection, I’ve changed your screen name to the screen name you used most recently on the blog. And welcome back. 😊

5. Thank you, sister. I will read into all these things. And they say the sisters can’t teach? I think they got that wrong. One question. Why do you think men appear to be more abusive to females than they [women?] are to them [men?]? Especially in the church world? I am not saying there are no abusive females, guys, and possibly I have no facts to support this. Just wondering as some times it seems this way.

   1. I think some reasons why men appear to be more abusive to women, than women are to men are:

      — Men’s rule over women began as a consequence of the Fall. Sin entered, and the relationships between the genders was impaired, damaged, messed up.

      — Generally, males have more physical strength, especially upper-body strength. In itself, male physical strength need not be negative; it can be positive when it’s used to provide food, shelter and protection to women and children. But in combination with the post-Fall predisposition of men to rule over women, man’s physical strength has often led to women being victimised and oppressed by men. The hard labour required to get food in a post-Fall world also leads to men fighting with other men to vie for good land and resources, with women being secondary sufferers from all that male-initiated warfare. Rape became a weapon of war. Sex trafficking became common as men vied with other men for control of women and children’s bodies.

      In the church world, the problem is worse because the universal church (the body of all true believers) has been infiltrated by extremely evil networks of people, up to and including Satanists. It’s no wonder: Satan hates Christ, so Satan’s followers infiltrate the institutional churches to abuse and mislead the people who truly belong to Christ. The wicked infiltrators have been at this since almost forever. The evildoers who have infiltrated the church have led many believers astray. So there are great swathes of the so-called church where sheep and false-shepherds are mouthing and repeating the doctrines of devils. Most people are sheep and are easily led. Very few have the character and capacity to be good under-shepherds who teach the sheep about Christ without distorting the faith and who protect the sheep from the infiltrating wolves.

      The mistranslation of scripture has also played a part in keeping churches and Christians from understanding God’s Word.

      Example 1. Most English versions of Genesis 3:16 refer to “the woman’s desire”. According to the scholar A A Mackintosh (see here), “‘desire’ is not a proper rendering of the Hebrew word תְּשׁוּקָה in the Hebrew Bible or in the Dead Sea Scrolls. Rather, on the evidence of comparative philology and of the ancient versions, ‘concern, preoccupation, (single-minded) devotion, focus’, appears to be more likely.”

      Example 2. The mistranslation of Malachi 2:16

      Example 3. 2 Timothy 3:6. “Little women” have been called “silly women” which now contributes to misogyny in the church and, Why did Paul call abused women ‘little-women’?

      Example 4. Protecting women from abuse. Has Exodus 21:10 been mistranslated in most English versions of the Bible?, and The woman’s desire in Genesis 3:16 — let’s be consistent with the context and with actual life. (Pt 2 of 2)

      Example 5. Sarah’s Covering in Genesis 20:16 — the Geneva Bible translated it absurdly and dishonestly

      Other Examples. The worst mistranslations in English Bibles relating to women. The article covers:
      — The idea that a woman must dress her head or hair in a certain way as a sign or symbol that she is under man’s authority in 1 Corinthians 11:10,
      — Junia being mistranslated as Junias in Romans 16:17,
      — “Little women” being mistranslated as “silly women” in 2 Timothy 3:6,
      — Translations of 1 Corinthians 7:4 that obscure the wife’s mutual authority over the husband,
      — Women being called “gossips” and “busybodies” in 1 Timothy 5:13,
      — Women being forbidden to teach men — the word authenteo in 1 Timothy 2:12 being translated as “exercise authority” or “usurp authority” over a man.

      Thank you for appreciating my ability to teach, Paul.

      1. I am thankful to you and all other believing men and woman who understand, teach and practice these truths.

         Very good point about 1 Corinthians 7:1-5. As I see it these verses apply equally to the husband and wife. As we say in [country redacted] it’s a fifty-fifty thing. I believe these verses are conditional verses which teach MUTUAL consent, love and respect. They are not a justification for sexual abuse. I have said that where spiritual abuse exists all other forms of abuse exist. In my humble opinion any man, or woman, who twist these verses to seek to teach that a spouse should have sex with another spouse who are living in various sexual sins are promoting sexual abuse within marriage. If I fall into such sins I believe that my wife not only has every right to put me away but also has every right to deny me sexual relations. Did not Paul teach about becoming cast away?

         What woman or man, unless they are given over to sin or traumatised through abuse want to have sex with a spouse who is sinning in these ways. Not that I would do this, but any man who twists scripture to claim his wife is defrauding him in the bedroom because she will not watch porn or participate in something the Bible teaches is sexual sin to gratify his sexual perversion is deluded and an abuser. To my shame, as a young unsaved man who was in the Armed forces, we had the reputation of being ladies men. But even when dead in sin I would never [have] thought about abusing a member of the opposite sex in such ways.

         I actually believe that I can be guilty of exceptional covenant without touching another woman and that sin is marriage rape. I hope I do not step on the toes of others and do not mean this in a nasty way, so will refrain from naming the theology but some have done all they can under the name of the Sovereignty of God to justify sin. I will not get into that, but will say that this Sovereign God of yours has many other attributes and is sinless and Holy. How can this God be the author and approver of the sins of human beings and satanic actions of Satan and demons?

         I again point to Jude 1-3. Why is it some will agree with me in saying we must repent and believe to have our past sins forgiven but seem to think just because Jesus shed His precious blood for our sins past, present, and future that this means as we live in future habitual sin we are forgiven? Jude 3-5 again is my answer. You must repent to have your sins past, present, and future atoned for. Since when did the wages of sin stop being death? I could not care who says the opposite — from personal hard experience I know this is not what the Holy Spirit teaches as the clue is in the word HOLY SPIRIT. Teaching like the opposite comes from an unholy spirit.

         I read of two terrible cases in which two believing woman were abused in the name of Jesus within a major Evangelical group in the U.S.A. I understand there are two sides to each story and that I have no hard evidence so will refrain from naming this group. I also understand that you can not hold all who attend this ministry or all in leadership responsible for the actions of others.

         In one case, a professed Christian man was a teacher in this group. He was suddenly arrested and it was alleged by his wife that he was guilty of some serious acts of sin and abuse. Unless there was a miscarriage of justice this man is now serving a long jail time. I understand that we will presume innocent to proven guilty and it was possibly this man was wrongly accused. But he is in jail and the evidence put him there. This group twisted, in my opinion, what the Bible teaches about church discipline to the point they were denying this woman her God-given, human, democratic and Christian rights. Church discipline does not mean we when need be, [we] do not involve the powers to be. Romans 13:1-5. Due to the fact this sister refused to return to the home with her children, she was disciplined and victim-shamed. This in my opinion proves not one of the so-called men of God involved in this were led by the Holy Spirit. This makes me ask. What spirit was it then?

         The second case was a female student at the same ministry who during a break was date-raped by a fellow student. She went to the police and reported this to the ministry. When she was called to discuss this with the leadership she was led into a room with one man alone. Not pushing the Billy Graham rule, but I think we will all agree this man should have had a woman with him to offer support to the young lady. He, according to the young lady, asked her questions which only law enforcement and those trained to deal with such issues or medical professionals should ask. He ask her if she enjoyed this. Then after a break she was seen by a female who twisted scripture again about rape to claim God could work a wonderful redemption story out of this if she married the rapist. When she was called into the office the second time, her rapist was sitting in the office. The so-called man of God asked her “why did she want to destroy this young man’s life by going to the police” and claimed she should have come to them before the police. The young man admitted to the sin and crime and the outcome was that both were dismissed. She alleged that she was being dismissed as she acted in a seductive manner and caused her brother to fall.

         These so-called men of God twisted scripture and have no concerns for justice or the trauma this young woman suffered. They are more interested in safe-guarding the name of their ministry and reputations. These are all acts of spiritual abuse which result in all other acts of abuse. I as a man am sick of these so-called Christians. I understand that I and others are not sinless. That we can all fall. But there is a big difference in the usual falling into sin [and] habitual sin and sadistic acts.

         I do not care if she ran around naked, that does not justify rape. And some young ladies might dress in seductive ways which will attract the wrong attention, but do not say things like she was asking for it. This only covers over and seeks to empower the abusive and sinful actions of others.

         The sad thing is how many victims of church abuse, friends and family have been hindered from entering the kingdom by those who had the key of knowledge but did not enter it themselves? Where are these people now? What about their faith in Jesus? These abusive wolves will one day have to give an account for these sins to God, who will not turn around and Justify these acts because they think He is some abuser of women and who justifies the sins of men.

         I have no issue taking spiritual and Biblical instruction from my sisters. And please do not come out with some rubbish about the Jezebel spirit. Men can have this to and this has nothing to do with sisters using their gifts to serve the Lord and minister to men. To be a Jezebel one would have to be practicing the same sins she did and use the same tactics she did towards men and also introduce the worship of false gods.

         Sisters, I have your backs.

         [For safety and protection, the country was redacted, and some paragraph breaks were added to enhance readability. Editors.]

      2. Paul,

         Although I’m only replying to your comment of 27th February 2024, I’ve been following and enjoying the entire conversation between you and Barb, and sometimes re-reading parts of your comments. 😊 Normally, I write MUCH longer replies 😊, but this time, I decided just to read. 😊

         Thank you for taking the time to write. 😊

      3. Thank you. I would like to share some burdens with you guys, as I believe that Barb has an anointed teaching ministry and healing ministry to the used and abused. He sent forth His word and healed them.

         I hope what I share is not too much and I will try to be as discrete as possibly. You can publish what you think is wise to and reply in the same way. I will understand what you mean.

         I in my past was diagnosed with Complex Trauma. The root cause of this according to the health professionals and my own opinion was childhood trauma due to childhood bullying and abuse which was not at the hands of family. The past troubles or conflict in [country redacted], military service in conflict, spiritual abuse as a new Christian and what I consider to be false doctrine which overthrew my faith and life resulting in me falling away and making many wrong choices and mistakes and the trauma of divorce. There are other things which I will not mention.

         I have seen a lot of suffering and depravity in life and also humbly admit that my own sins also contributed. These I repented of and by the grace of God do not intend to return to.

         I hope I do not cause any offence in what I write next and feel free if you want to read this bit yourself but do not publish. I believe that salvation is by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone as the gift of God alone, not of our works lest we should boast. According to Romans 14 I do not believe that one’s secondary convictions or scruples of conscience are needful for salvation or [to] confirm someone is not a Christian.

         As you will understand I have had to deal with a lot of trauma and to date have experienced much healing from this. But I still struggle and have times when I suffer overpowering symptoms.

         I do not promote denominations and am not a member of any church. In all honesty I do not trust many Christians which includes church leadership. I feel that many are only interested in their own life and simply seek to turn us into their disciples to Lord it over us. Paul warned us of this in Acts 20:17-35, and in verses 28-30. Who do the sheep belong to?

         These people are called wolves, so are not saved. They seek to turn us into their disciple and not teach us to be the free disciple of Jesus, who are at liberty to follow Him even if this means they do not become a member of one’s denomination or follow their secondary convictions. Where the Spirit of the Lord is there is freedom. I have no interest in playing their religious games or the reputation of their ministries and refuse to be the disciple of men. I do not trust the character or counsel of many of them.

         As a new Christian I was taken under the wing of a professed man of God from the U.S.A. I looked to him as a father figure. After a time, through his influence I planned to attend Bible school in the States. Understand I had not been taught the foundation doctrines or milk of the Word, was a vulnerable young man who was traumatised. He began to try and isolate me from other Christians and their views on things and was always quick to put them down and dismiss anything I got from the Lord myself. When I backed out of his vision for my life he told me that no one else loved me as he does and that if I did not follow through I was taking God’s second best for my life.

         Before I write any more, I will say that I have respect for and honour some teachers who hold to Reformed Theology which includes the five points and OSAS [Once Saved, Always Saved]. Some are good Christians and people. The same goes for some others who hold to various secondary views. I am not attempting to cause any form of disunity, just telling my story but will say that I do not agree with the five points or any form of antinomian doctrine. Please do not try to convert me to follow such things as you can’t. I know what the Holy Spirit taught me and there is no one who can convince me. Why would anyone want to any way? I hold to Reformed Arminian theology and do not believe the Pentecostal gifts have ceased. With that said I am not one who supports the extreme prosperity Gospel, one who runs after sensational spiritual experience and chases the gifts or signs and wonders and am not seeking to convert anyone to these. I will be the first to admit that there is much confusion and false teaching within the Pentecostal movement and do not hold to those kind of things.

         P.S The Holy Spirit does not belong to the Pentecostals and I understand that He lives in the spirit of all believers.

         Anyway, this man, as many do twisted scripture understanding. I was vulnerable and had no education due to the fact my childhood was robbed from me and I was so traumatised by the abuse I could not settle to learn and that I was ignorant of scripture. He [the professed man of God from the U.S.A.] told me that I was eternally secure and that I should not worry too much about sinning. That I had no choice in anything and that if it was the will of God for me to attend Bible school then fall away and make a mess of my life, I had no choice in this. He become abusive when I would ask questions, and put me down all the time. One time he told me that the way he evangelises is he tells people to go home and pray if they have been given to the Son by the Father that He will save them, but if not that they might as well go and have it all as they will burn anyway.

         I believe this describes some of [the people] who Jude warned us of in Jude 3-5, and that only reprobates advise sinners to live knee-deep in sin as recorded in Romans 1. I do not care what anyone says, this is not the Holy Spirit working through this man and how can a Holy and sinless God be the author and approver of sin. These guys want to excuse themselves of responsibility before God and man and justify their sins by teaching there is no grace to overcome sin and that God makes us sin. Jude 3-5 is all over this. Can I just say that there is not a verse in the Bible or slogan the Calvinist has [that] I do not know. Sorry but I strongly disagree and will not change as you might as well ask me to deny my faith in Christ. I think I read a post of yours in which stats showed that [in] many cases of abuse within the church the people believed in or were taught Calvinism. This does not shock me due to my personal experience.

         I hope this causes you no offence as I understand you come from, I think, a Reformed background which is fine as I am humble enough to ask your advice due to the content of your teaching and could not care about your secondary convictions, which are none of my business. To our own master we stand or fall. I do not believe that we can be totally free of the old man in this life but do believe God has give us the grace through the Holy Spirit to overcome all sin in this life. I also do not hold that one can be saved today and lost tomorrow but do believe that it’s possibly to fall away to perdition. I understand God will chastise His child first and am honest enough to admit that I am capable of falling into the same sins all other saved persons have and do. I am not perfect or sinless.

         The strong holds this man put in my mind took years to break down and the monster God he presented to me, in my opinion, was the devil himself. This traumatised me and resulted in me suffering deep emotional, spiritual and psychological harm which destroyed my life and faith. Due to the way I was misled by this man and this teaching I fell away and made many wrong choices in my life and faith. Please do not even think that I was not saved at that time in the first place. I know I was. Paul taught that we can depart from the faith. How can we depart from a faith we have never been in? He taught that many would fall away from the faith. How can you fall away from what you have not been in? We can error from the faith and have our faith overthrown and make [a] shipwreck of it. In my case it was overthrown.

         I some years later married a young woman who professed faith and we were married four years. We have a [child] who I am happy to say is now saved and attending a Christian training centre in the States for this next [less than a year] to take part in missionary work.

         I was not abusive to her and did not commit physical sexual sin. Understand that I had been taught [that] the stuff I had been taught, and did not understand [that] what I do now so was very carnal. I was not perfect and made many mistakes which I am ashamed of, but this man and this doctrine is what put me into this bondage in the first place. I began to experience a deep depression and struggle with the trauma of my past. I began to think on the things of God and wanted freedom from all this bondage. I confided with my ex-wife and cried out to God for help. At this time to my surprise my then-wife left and this resulted in years of hardship. Her and her family who all professed faith turned against me and she changed to a different person. Every attempt of reconciliation was turned down and I lost everything. Yes, I admit this was not all her fault, but this woman and her family persecuted me and also made false accusations about me.

         For a period of [about a decade] I went through Hell on earth and was then overcome with all the trauma of my past. I did not have the spiritual understanding to cope and am still waiting on all the love-filled believers I knew at this time to visit. That was a long time ago.

         Years later I spent a week under deep conviction for my sins and spent a week in deep prayer and repentance. I was broken and simply wanted to die. God was speaking to me but I found it hard to accept that I had a future. I cried out to God in desperation and He spoke a verse I did not know into my heart. When I looked it up it said hope deferred makes the heart sick. I felt as if someone had reached deep into my hurt and touched me. A sudden conviction came over me to attend the fellowship I now attend. Unless the Pastor and visiting speaker work for the secret service and had my home bugged, there is no way they could have known any of this. When I walked into the fellowship the Pastor was reading about the blind man who was told to not annoy Jesus but cried out in desperation, “Son of David, have mercy on me.” That would describe how I felt. The visiting speaker who I never met before said “is there someone here with a heart complaint, and I do not mean a physical one, but you have been beat up so much you feel sick in your heart”. I responded. This man who I never met before looked me in the eyes and said, “God says you must forget your past as He has forgiven you for the sins of your past. You have been misunderstood, wrongly accused and treated and those who treated you this way were wrong. You were taught a lot of dodgy stuff in your past which did you great harm which was not from Me.”

         He [the visiting speaker] told me things no man could know and told me what I was praying for. Read 1 Corinthians 14:23-25. This man asked me nothing and I am convinced that this was the work of the Holy Spirit. My life all changed after this and things began to be restored to me. When my first bride left, I bumped into two older men of God who prayed over me. They did not know all the complex issues I was facing but did know that my wife at this time [had] left me. When I went home I prayed and asked for direction. I was not playing “Bible-roulette” but knocked over my Bible. When I picked it up my eyes fell on scripture I did not know was in the Bible and two footnotes by Charles Spurgeon which I think he wrote just for me if you understand what I mean. The scripture was Micah 7:5-10. I know God used this to direct me, as at that time my ex-spouse was phoning me and asking me lots of questions. Consider verse 5. Yes, I did bear the indignation of the Lord but He did plead my cause and I did sit in darkness.

         For some reason many church leaders do not appear to be anointed or willing to minister to the broken and bruised reeds. They seem to have a form of Godliness but no power to bring inner change or healing. Just dead doctrine. Possibly wells without water. Most have no clue of what the Bible teaches about divorce and remarriage or simply could not care less. During my years of deep suffering I had no support, love or understanding shown to me. Do not come and ask me to attend your club you call church and listen to your preaching as I want nothing to do with your club and so-called teaching. That is my reply to many.

         My Mum passed away in February this year and was in care for [about half a decade] since Dad died. How many visits from her home church do you think she had? None. My [child], wife and I, with a local Presbyterian minister, were with her in her last hours. My [child] and I prayed with her and read God’s word to her. I understand the deep pain we read of in Psalm 55. But when you think the one who is betraying you and you can’t trust is Jesus due to the false doctrine I was brain-washed with, how do you stand? When you think God hates you and your loved ones, what is the point? I mean their God is a monster who punishes us for what He made us do. The husband tells his wife with the back-up of the Pastor that God has willed for him to abuse her and two-time her. They accuse Jesus of sin to justify their own sin. They mislead people like me with their false Jesus, and like Satan use the word of God to do so to lead us into sin and then condemn us for the very pit-fall they lead us into. No wonder Jesus called the religious leaders of His day a bunch of snakes who are like grave yards which are full of dead bones and corruption. If you were taught you could not overcome sin and it did not matter how you live and that God makes you sin how would this affect you as a young believer? I am shocked that I still have faith on Jesus.

         I have no doubt that I suffer from religious trauma due to spiritual abuse. These are doctrines of devils as only he would abuse us in such ways.

         I would like to write some other stuff and ask some questions which I hope will help me to complete my healing if this is ok. This will not be as long, as I thought the best thing to do was to pour out my soul in humility. I mean no offence to anyone and have forgiven all but need to chat with those who understand and can offer hope and comfort.

         Thank you, Paul.

         P.S. I will write the follow-up today, but need a break now.

         [For safety and protection, some information was redacted, and some paragraph breaks were added to enhance readability. Editors.]

6. Follow-up from Paul.

   This will not be as long. Since then to present I have had many blessings and seen much restoration in every part of my life and faith. My wife and I have grown in grace and had our ups and downs. I am still mistrusting of some Christians, churches, ministries and church leaders. I prefer to trust a few and paddle my own canoe. If I am around too many Christians I feel the symptoms of trauma, and with all due respect cannot wait to get out of their company. I am fed up with the usual Christian slogans within the faith and simply do not trust most professing believers.

   I have tried my best to work on my personal relationship with God and settle things through prayer and Bible study. Second-hand information is not, in my opinion, laying a good foundation in one’s faith. It’s not that I will not compare my findings with Christian teachers I trust or listen to others. I do. But I believe that we need to test everything, especially in this day and age due to the rise of false prophets and doctrines within the universal church, and as I believe we are well into the last days.

   My wife and I were both divorced in our pasts, have been married [somewhat less than two decades] and both our ex-spouses have remarried. I do not regret my wife but do regret how ill-prepared I was as a Christian due to the lack of discipleship and false controlling leaders who through their contributions led me into believing these lies which resulted in me making a mess of things. I accept responsibility for my now-forgiven sins, but those who led me into the mess who claimed to be the called and anointed shepherds of God and who should have had more light and wisdom in my opinion, are more accountable. Jesus said “he who delivered me unto you has the greater sin”. Or should I suffer like many others under the false guilt of victim-shame?

   I still struggle with the P.T.S.D. and all who have suffered the same ways will understand what I mean. I refuse to go back and run in the same circles and with the same people and those like them as there is no way this could work. Why return to your abusers and these circles to be abused more? It would be like the dog returning to his vomit and sow which was washed to its wallowing in the mire. I do not hate them but do my best to safe guard myself, wife and family from this sort. Their influence destroyed my life and faith in the past and they would do so again, if I was willing to allow this.

   Within the church universal many relationships, lives and the faith of people has been destroyed due to the many acts of spiritual abuse which exist in all of our churches, which includes all who hold to the secondary convictions I do. I am not writing about sinless perfection but refer to the habitual acts of sin and abuse which some use the Bible to justify. The truth is that if I did not actually believe Jesus was the Messiah, that I would deconstruct from the faith and [have] nothing else to do with any form of faith or religion.

   Due to this trauma and the fact that I had to, on my own, seek God without the support of other believers which includes the church leaders, about divorce and remarriage I have been traumatised more. I become weary of reaching out for support as most of the time I found none from those who claim to have the love of God. Faith without works is dead. I found some support, but those who were willing were so overloaded by their lack of support to support others [and] could not maintain this.

   As I take my faith seriously and believe the Lord showed me that the two most important relationships I have are my spiritual marriage with Him and natural marriage with my wife, I have been passing through a recent process which has been good but at times painful. During this time my Mum passed away so I have had time of work to attend to these matters. As I feel that I was misled by many things within the faith, I feel I must work this out in my personal walk with God and ask for the help of those who understand and actually know what the Bible teaches on these matters.

   Due to recent encounters with the Divine Divorce cult, my faith has been tested and assurance weakened which resulted in the return of some trauma. My wife and I chose to pray and study to strengthen our faith and assurance in these matters so we can lay a deeper foundation.

   I have enjoyed our discussions and wish to ask your advice on how I should go forward with the trauma and doctrine about remarriage as I fear that some seek to destroy the marriages of divorced and remarried persons by twisting the scriptures, and it does say “My people are destroyed by a lack of knowledge”. I have told you these things as I am being honest and humble. I do not have all the answers and am willing to learn from you and ask your counsel.

   I think it’s terrible that I can’t find a man of God in my country who provides what your ministry does and have no problem learning from a sister. When you have time can you write to let me know if I can ask some questions? I feel you have answers I need to strengthen me in these matters.

   Thank you, Paul.

   [Some paragraph breaks were added to enhance readability. Editors.]

   1. Paul,

      I’ve read and re-read your comments of 28th February 2024….

      I hear you, I believe you, and I’m so sorry for what has happened to you. 😢 And, much as it mightn’t feel like that sometimes, you’ve made great progress. 😊

      And if you keep looking through the A Cry For Justice blog, reading some of the posts (and their comments), using the Resources pages, FAQ pages, etc, they’ll probably also help you. 😊

      Please keep posting, as, if, and when you’re able…. 😊

      1. Thank you. This is encouraging. Job, when he began his sufferings had a group of friends who at the start got things right as they simply sat with him and were there for him in his pain. Later they began to pass their judgments and possibly were well-meaning about why he was suffering but [they] were wrong. The same thing happens today. But at least his friends tried at the start and should be praised for their effort. The thing is that in my experience no one was there for me. No one even sat with me. It appears that the verse to suffer with those who suffer does not apply anymore. Some are to quick to judge others who are suffering and put their sufferings all down to some sin, chastisement, reaping what we sowed or lack of faith. Some of these could be the cause but not always.

         Too many hard-hearted people hiding behind their theology books passing judgment on things they no nothing about. Unless you have walked through whatever the suffering is, experienced the comfort of God in it and overcome, you might mean well but you need to keep your theology to yourself or you might end up rebuked by the Lord. Until you have been divorced or you have been abused or you have stood in the field of military combat and watched the suffering and pain, your silly little theology degree does not qualify you and you should simply shut up and stop the religious trauma you are causing to those who are hurt.

         I know men who live knee-deep in other sins but judge and preach their false Gospel of hate to the LGBT communities which is hypocritical. Before you judge me I will make it clear that I understand what scripture teaches about these sins and stand on the side of the scriptures on them. I do not agree with this lifestyle, but why can others live in and refuse to repent of all other sins recorded in scripture and still be so holy while they [the LGBT community] appear to be the only ones who are in sinful lifestyle choices? Will an unrepentant sinner of any sin enter God’s Kingdom? Some appear to think that some gay-bashing heterosexual sinner will, while they won’t. Again I wish to say that I do not agree with the sins of this community but I thought Jesus atoned for all manner of sin and blasphemy, and that there was only one unpardonable sin which is not the sins they are living in. God did not just judge Sodom for this one sin but a list of sins including these ones which lots of heterosexual people are living in. How come as a married man I can live in habitual acts of sinful abuse against my wife and adultery, but be on the right side of the Kingdom, but those who embrace this lifestyle are the only ones some think are under wrath?

         What I am saying is that one could have a Biblical stance against the LGBT people but deliver it in a wrong spirit. It says to speak the truth in love and not hate. How come some of these same professing believers can commit the same sins they were at Sodom except the same-sex stuff and somehow think they will not come under the same judgment if they do not repent? God is no respecter of persons.

         I think that some well-meaning and not so well-meaning Christians and churches deny what is called spiritual abuse and religious trauma, as they simply have their head in the sand and are too weak in their faith to deal with it as this busts their religious bubble. I will call this a wrong division of the word of truth by babes in Christ. But the rest are guilty of a deceitful handling of it as many of them are the abusers who do not want the truth to get out as this might result in their loss of power and income.

         What happens is that some sit back with their pet doctrine and blame this on the spirit of antichrist, accuser of the brethren, accuse some of never being saved in the first place or falling away. They take all these teachings out of context like the friends of Job did when they began their witch hunt and get it all wrong which results in religious trauma and spiritual abuse. We need Holy Ghost-anointed and led men and woman of God to deal with these matters, and there is no anointing in many of the silly dead theology degrees of many. I know a man of God who actually repented of his theology degree and who witnessed to another who had one [a theology degree] but no inner relationship with Jesus or Holy Spirit-understanding of scripture. They came to see this and admitted it themselves.

         I think we need balance, and understand that there can be all of the above spiritual reasons to some of these matters, but to deny religious trauma and spiritual abuse is to twist these truths to cover it up.

         I, like others, cry out for justice as this ministry does for all who have been used and abused at the hands of professing Christians and church leaders. Please Lord grant all your Justice and tear down the alters of these abusive sinners and lead them also to repentance.

         I would love to hear your thoughts about religious trauma and spiritual abuse. I think many are afraid to go there as we feel we are falling away or somehow attacking the saints and our Saviour. I am not attacking Jesus, the Bible, faith or saints. Just trying to keep it real.

         Paul

         [Some paragraph breaks were added to enhance readability. Editors.]

      2. Hi Paul, I agree with what you said about the sins of Sodom.

         The sins of Sodom were rapacious homosexuality (Genesis 19), arrogance, careless ease, and neglecting the poor and needy (Ezekiel 16).

         The men of Sodom were exceedingly wicked and sinful against the LORD. (Genesis 13:13)

         Look, this was the iniquity of your sister Sodom: She and her daughter had pride, fullness of food, and abundance of idleness; neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy. (Ezekiel 16:49)

         Also I have seen a horrible thing in the prophets of Jerusalem: They commit adultery and walk in lies; They also strengthen the hands of evildoers, So that no one turns back from his wickedness. All of them are like Sodom to Me, And her inhabitants like Gomorrah. (Jeremiah 23:14)

         Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. (1 Corinthians 6:9-10)

         All scripture quotes in this comment are from the NJK version.

      3. Paul wrote:

         … in my experience no one was there for me. No one even sat with me. It appears that the verse to suffer with those who suffer does not apply anymore.

         Like your namesake Paul, who wrote, “At my first defence, no one assisted me, but all forsook me.” (2 Timothy 4:16)

         Click here to read it in context. The link goes to the New Matthew Bible on BibleGateway.com.

         Romans 12:15b says Weep with those who weep. In my experience, most Christians ignore that part of verse 15. It astounds me how they skip over it in their brain like it doesn’t even exist. Try asking a person who claims to be a Christian, “What does the Bible say about weeping?” and see how few people mention that instruction!

      4. Hi all it’s me again. I am not an expert and will share my thoughts. But would appreciate it if some could write their thoughts on this matter as I am open and we all learn from each other. By the way, that goes for all you sisters out there. I am more than willing to listen to you.

         Health professionals who diagnose and treat trauma conditions such as P.T.S.D. and so on also diagnose and treat what they call Religious Trauma and Religious O.C.D. I feel I have some insight into this as I was diagnosed with Complex Post Traumatic Stress Disorder and what they call Pure O.C.D which is more in the mind than moving things about into various positions and so on. They say this is common with those who have trauma.

         My heart goes out to anyone who has suffered from trauma conditions and symptoms and I do understand. Unless you have experienced this and overcome, please do not judge those who have not the support or insight they need to do so, or those who do but struggle in this area. I will offer Psalm 55 to all as a Bible reading comfort and education if you are suffering from trauma, or if you would like to attempt to understand the emotional, mental and spiritual distress those who do suffer are experiencing. I am not seeking to justify addictions or sinning, but these people are hurting with deep inner pain and need our love and support.

         You will read in this Psalm [Psalm 55:6] where it says “oh that I had wings like a dove as I would fly away and be at peace”. This describes, in my opinion, escape behaviours which might explain why some good people are reaching out for various unhealthy things, even sinful things which cause addictions. Due to what I consider to have been various false doctrines which have been and continue to be taught within the universal church, if you read the Psalm you will read how the Psalmist says “if it was an enemy who reproached me then I could bear it. But it was you my equal and companion”. Our faith in the book of Peter is called a PRECIOUS FAITH. Please read the following verses and come to your own conclusions which I respect. But I will sure [share?] mine.

         This precious faith of ours is of greater value to God and us than anything else. And Satan knows this. Jesus said to Peter, “Satan has desired to sift you as wheat but I have prayed for you that your faith does not fail”. In other versions it says “does not totally” and / or “finally” fail. Did Peter’s faith suffer a temporary lapse? Yes it did and Satan almost got his way.

         Paul the Apostle taught the following facts.

         1) People can, have and will depart from the faith and give heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils. I am not some crazy Pentecostal who sees demons behind every bush, but why do some believers seem to deny their activities? Could it be they do not actually believe the word of God? Read 1 Timothy 4:1-3. How do you depart from a faith you were never in?

         2) Paul taught about a great falling away from the faith. How do you fall away from what you were never in? 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3.

         3) That our faith could be overthrown due to all the usual secondary doctrinal debates we can all be guilty of which babes in Christ do not need to hear. How can your faith be overthrown if you do not have the grace of faith? 2 Timothy 2:14-18.

         4) That our Faith can become shipwrecked, which happens when we follow false teaching and / or go back to habitual sinning, as usually it will take a call of the Spirit to get you restored if you go too far. How can this be if we have no free will, which we do, and cannot resist the grace of God which we can. Read your Bibles please and not the theological teachings of men you have never met. 1 Timothy 1:18-20

         5) That we can error from the faith due to the love of money. 1 Timothy 6:9-12.

         I think it is scriptural to teach that these things can hinder unbelievers from coming to Jesus for salvation and believers to fall away. Think of how God feels about that, and any of us who are causing others to stumble [in] these ways?

         Satan is not as interested in robbing us of everything else, but if he can rob us of our faith then our foundation in life and faith might be destroyed. If the foundations are destroyed what can the righteous do. This is in the Bible, but I can not recall where. Perhaps someone will check this out. [Eds: it’s from Psalm 11:3.]

         Due to what I now, and many others would agree, was a false Gospel and doctrine of devils which in my opinion is antinomian — Jude 3-5 — my faith as a new Christian was overthrown and this misled me into making many wrong choices and not growing in grace, which resulted in spiritual deception and falling into many sins, which I have repented of and accept responsibility for. The Satanic deception was the twisting of various scriptures which I had been brain-washed with, and the counsel of a so-called man of God. Satan used the scriptures and twisted them when tempting Jesus and he still uses the same tactic.

         By the way, we have all been told that the devil and his demons know the scriptures more than we do, which is a half-truth and half-truths result in half-lies.

         Yes, it’s true that Satan and demons understand the scriptures and no doubt study them, but they do not understand the truth of the scriptures. Does Satan and his demons have the Holy Spirit living in them or [the] Spirit of Truth? No, they according to Jesus in the scriptures, are all liars and the father of lies which is deception. They do not understand the heart of God the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit in the scriptures and understand them only from a blinded, Satanic and evil interpretation of them. Read John 8:43-44. And 1 Timothy 4:1-4.

         You see this? Deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons. Who is behind these teachings and who inspires these predators in our pulpits and universal body to teach them? Satan and demons. We call some of these men and woman Pastor or Professor of Theology at some Bible schools. I call them Pastor and Professor Apostate, false prophet, wolf, heretic, and “fat bottom”. Hope the last one made you laugh.

         The natural man does not understand the teachings of the Spirit of God, and has not the Holy Spirit inside them to teach them and lead them into truth. They will always wrongly divide and deceitfully handle the word of truth. Read 1 Corinthians 2:13 and John 14:15-18.

         When we have unsaved men and women or those who were but have fallen into apostasy teach the things of God, we will have nothing but the teaching of the world’s sinful nature of man and Satan. 1 Timothy 4:1-4 says that they depart from the faith as they are giving themselves over to the influence of seducing spirits and doctrines of demons. It says they have a seared conscience which takes time, through a process, and that they speak lies in hypocrisy. Their doctrine and practice is hypocritical. And as they are liars they will mislead you.

         Think about that? Some of the people you and I sit in church with or who are in a place of leadership are actually demonised and we live in such a day. This applies to all of our denominations.

         They, through their false teaching, will present an image of God which is a false God. They will twist the Bible to do this. They will use these false teachings to justify their sins and the sins of others. Some will even attempt to twist things like the Sovereignty of God to teach you that it is the will of God for you to suffer whatever it is you suffer, and justify the sinful acts of abuse you suffer, while they empower the abusers. This sovereign God of theirs is Holy and sinless and has many other attributes. Sorry, false prophets, but God is not the author and approver of your sins, and you are a grace-perverting wolf. Your God is not the God of scripture and does not approve of you or your doctrines of devils. Stop empowering the hands of abusive evildoers in the name of Jesus. God is not the author and approver of your abuse and He hears our cry for justice.

         I would appreciate your insights on Religious Trauma. I mentioned Psalm 55 and the part where it says “if it was an enemy who reproached me”. You see, due to the false doctrine I was taught, I mean force-fed and spiritually abused with. In my sufferings, and I admit some was self-inflicted, I thought that the one who had betrayed me was Jesus and that He was the author and approver of all the things in life I had suffered, which included my sins and the sins of others. How could I trust Him and find comfort in Him? This was the result of religious trauma. The man who taught me this loved to promote the total depravity of man, but in my opinion, some, due to their misunderstanding of this, teach the total depravity of God as they teach He, in His sovereign will, is the author and approver of such evils.

         When you see their false God, you see Satan, who wants to deceive us into this strong delusion. Anyone who tells you that God is the author and approver of the sins of human beings and Satanic acts of Satan are a deceived antichrist, as Jesus is God and He was not, and still is not, a sinner or the devil. They follow a false Jesus and promote antinomian heresy. Jude 3-5.

         Can’t you see that they fail to test the spirits, as this is apostasy from the doctrine of Christ. Read Jeremiah 32:30-35. In verse 33. Did God not teach them and call to them? Did they not choose to resist His grace? And verse 35. God said He did not command these sins and evils and that these things did not enter His mind, which is heart. God is saying that these sins are not the will or heart of the Father. God did not predestine by some evil decree that these people should practice these sins, or that those who suffered at their hands were made to suffer these evils at the hands of sinners He was the author and approver of. Jude 3-5 again and again. This is what the grace-perverting wolves of Jude 3-5 teach and that is what one of them taught me. Am I saying God is not Sovereign? No, but my God is so sovereign He can exercise His control over human beings who have the gift of free will and are responsible for their actions and free-will response to the grace of God in all things.

         When did God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit stop being holy and sinless? How can He be the author and approver of the Satanic acts of Satan and demons, the life-long sins of unbelievers, and the pre- and post-conversion sins of believers?

         Now for all who understand what doctrine I refer to. You see how people can be spiritually abused by this and abusers can hide behind it?

         We need to stop running to defend our denominations and all these stupid theologies, and defend Jesus and those who need justice. You see, some who read this [might be] now angry with me, as you understand what doctrine I refer to, but you would prefer to defend some dead man you never met and who is not God, and would never stand up for or defend Jesus, or those who have been traumatised and abused through this. Please do not think I do not understand these so-called teachings, as I do, and am grateful God delivered me from the bondage of them, as some of you — like the false prophets of Jeremiah — want to teach that we have been delivered to practice these abominations as God did not give us the grace to live holy. Jude 3-5 again.

         The God you [false prophets] claim is the author and approver of your evil — and do not even attempt to use your little get out of jail free theological words which are not ever used in scripture — as I know all your tricks; you follow is a seducing spirit and not the Holy Spirit, and in love I warn you that if you do not repent you will end up in Hell.

         By the way, God created Hell for Satan and his demons, not human beings. Read your Bible and stop allowing your dead leaders, who are mortal men as I am, to be the Holy Spirit unto you. But some will not change as they do not care what the word of God says, and you have been taught that you cannot hear from the Holy Spirit yourself, so will resist all His convictions because of what your little theological book says. Could I recommend some good Christian books? You will find them in the Bible.

         You must love the truth, or be given over to strong delusions. Loving the truth is not a one-night stand with Jesus as some teach, and refers to the Truth who is Jesus, the word of truth and Spirit of truth. Not your church leaders, and that is why many have been given over to strong delusions as they could not care about the love of the truth as they use their little confession of faith as final authority. Jesus said that “before Abraham was I am” and before any of these men were, He was. Are you a disciple of Jesus or man?

         Religious trauma is defined as religious experience which is stressful, degrading, dangerous, abusive and damaging. Let’s be honest. There are many teachings in the universal church which result in this. I can think of nothing more degrading than a doctrine which teaches that a wife must unconditionally submit to the habitual sins and acts of abuse of her husband. That this will help her sanctification. That God is a monogamous, woman-hating God, who has predestined you suffer this as somehow this Holy and sinless God is the author and approver of your abuse and the sins of your husband. Jude 3-5 again. Let me make this clear to all men and women, and this includes the untouchables as Barb has taught.

         You are an abusive false teacher and you do not intimidate me. Your God is the very devil. You must be an abuser as you, through your false doctrine, advocate sins which God hates. You are teachers of antinomian heresy. There is no way you have the anointing of the Holy Spirit, and you can claim you have eternal life all you want, but need to read the verses again. “My sheep HEAR my voice and they FOLLOW me.” If you do not hear His voice and follow Him, then you do not have eternal life. He leads me in the paths of righteousness for His name’s sake, not sin. You are teaching people that God is the author and approver of their sins, and the victims of their sins that God has willed this.

         The Holy Spirit does not lead us into sin and does not will that others be abused by sin. What part of HOLY SPIRIT do you not understand? He is sinless. He does not predestine the evil these men say He does. They follow an unholy spirit and the voice they hear is the voice of a demon spirit. Shame on you.

         God has not given mankind calls and appeals, doctrine reproof, corrections and instructions, promises and conditions, that He will not give us the grace to respond to and follow no matter what these Jude 3-5 wolves teach. You make God out to be the worst curse on His creation and creatures, and Jude warned us of you and all others like you. Under no condition will I attend such fellowships or listen to their ministry. I do not support evildoers.

         The church should be a safe place for all, but sad to say that it is not.

         Before I am misunderstood, can I say I am not some signs and wonders, gifts of the Spirit chasing, visions and dreams, mad prosperity preacher who thinks that it’s never within the will of God for us to be sick or suffer. And I do not believe on sinless perfection. But I do not believe that the grace of God and Holy Spirit makes us sin or that He cannot enable us to overcome all sin. I believe the old nature will remain unto death or rapture but that salvation saves us from the penalty, indwelling power and one day essence [presence? — Eds.] of sin. To teach that we are eternally secure in our habitual sins and that we have been saved from the penalty of sin, but cannot have freedom from the indwelling power of sin is delusional and false. You make God the author and approver of your sins and again I point to Jude 3-5. You teach what the false prophets of Jeremiah taught, who said that you will have peace and no evil will come on you, and we have been delivered to practice all these abominations. Scripture teaches that we can blaspheme the Spirit, grieve the Spirit, quench the Spirit, resist the Spirit, lie to the Spirit, and harden our hearts against the Spirit. We have free will and do not have to respond to the grace of God in anything.

         I think that the following points could be applied to religious trauma.

         1) Sometimes, and in some cases, unsaved sinners and believers who have been offended due to the fact that other believers who have spoken the truth in love in the right way, will not condone their sins, and due to the teachings of the word of God and convictions of the Holy Spirit, have taken sinful offence, and due to this, wrongly claim that they have been abused, and the trauma is self-inflicted as they suffer the earthly consequences of their sins

         2) The Bible teaches that there are two kinds [of] offence. One [kind is] sinful offence, which is the result of sinners who do not want to repent, and who rebel against the things of God. John 6:60-61 and 1 Peter 2:6-8.

         3) [The second kind of offence is] Those, as above, who did not have the word of God spoken to them in love but by hypocrites. This is none sinful offence. Romans 14, [the] whole chapter, and Matthew 18:7-14. Believers and unbelievers who have been taught false doctrine due to a wrong division of the word of truth and deceitful handling of it, and who have suffered spiritual abuse through these false teachings and the sinful acts of abuse they have suffered due to them.

         These people have had the kingdom of God shut up from them, by those who had the key of knowledge but did not enter in and have hindered them who were from doing so. They have been sinned against, used and abused by all these false teachers and the false teachings they teach and practice [which] have been used to blind and corrupt their minds from Christ. All they see is a hypocrite of a God and his hypocrite people.

         These spiritual abusers have no love, humility, grace, mercy and are blind guides who are wells with no water, doctrinal and practical hypocrites who are like the religious leaders of the Gospels who have [the] form of Godliness but deny the power. They are cold religious and legalistic people who are self-righteous and have no understanding of their own sin. They put yokes of bondage on others no man could bear, and [they] traumatise others due to over-the-top teachings about asking others to suffer what they have not and would not suffer, and will make no difference to their life and faith, nor that of others, and which God wants to call them to peace from and to deliver them from.

         They [the spiritual abusers] also expect those they abuse to make sacrifices and meet conditions they have not made and will not make, which will make no difference to their life and faith or that of others. They twist these scriptures using words such as obedience and sacrifice to control and manipulate their prey. They add works to grace and accuse those who expose their abuse, twisting words and Bible teachings about the accuser of the brethren, submission and rebellion and church discipline and forgiving others, to keep their victims in bondage and to safeguard their own selfish interests placing their traumatised victims under false condemnation. They leave people under a religious yoke of bondage in which they are never holy enough, never study the Bible [enough] or pray enough, never serve enough, never give enough and are always to blame for the many sufferings of this world.

         Like the religious leaders in the Gospels they [the spiritual abusers] place heavy burdens on their victims which are overburdensome, and which they offer no support to bear. They do not understand that Jesus said “It is finished”. These people are narcissistic and [are] control freaks. They will falsely accuse all who challenge them, or seek the help they need, as they will challenge their spiritual abuse, and who suffer due to their religious trauma, as being influenced by the spirit of antichrist and are Christian cult leaders who have used and abused the teachings of Christ to present a false Christ and church which is really a cult.

         [Some paragraph breaks, formatting and words in square brackets have been added to enhance readability. Editors.]

      5. Paul,

         I’m replying to both of your comments of 4th March 2024….

         In one of your comments, you wrote:

         Health professionals who diagnose and treat trauma conditions such as P.T.S.D. and so on also diagnose and treat what they call Religious Trauma and Religious O.C.D. I feel I have some insight into this as I was diagnosed with Complex Post Traumatic Stress Disorder and what they call Pure O.C.D which is more in the mind than moving things about into various positions and so on. They say this is common with those who have trauma.

         I’m a Christian woman, I’m high-functioning Asperger’s, and I have Complex-PTSD. For a VERY short time in my life (after my divorce), I experienced some OCD (not scrupulosity). I’ve never been formally diagnosed for any of these — I’m (correctly) self-diagnosed (as — for many reasons — are many people). I think in pictures (as many people on the Autism spectrum do), but no one would ever know the difference. I’m omitting many, many details 😊 ….you can find some of my story strewn like breadcrumbs throughout the ACFJ blog. Some of my breadcrumbs (comments 😊) might seem strange, especially if you read them “out of order” — my comments make more sense if you read them from oldest to newest. I’m NOT suggesting you do this 😊 ….I’m simply providing some information. 😊

         Quite a few years ago, I read a memoir by a man who had what is often called “Scrupulosity”. I think this might be what you were referring to when you wrote the phrase “Religious O.C.D.” For more information, I’m providing a link to Wikipedia’s page on Scrupulosity [Internet Archive link]. (The Internet Archive link was done by me.)

         And in many of your comments, you’ve used the term “Antinomianism”. For readers who mightn’t be familiar with the term, I’m providing a link to Wikipedia’s page on Antinomianism [Internet Archive link]. (The Internet Archive link was done by me.)

         In your two comments, you referred to some people, one way or another, as being blind. Barb wrote an excellent series on Biblical blindness….some (all?) of which you might be familiar with. 😊 For your convenience, I’m including a link to Barb’s Blindness Series Digest, which consists of links to the 7 posts in her series.

      6. Hi Paul, it’s good to know that some Health Professionals are now diagnosing Religious Trauma, Religious O.C.D, and Pure O.C.D which is more in the mind than moving things about into various positions and so on.

         I think I have some Pure O.C.D., because I often spend hours, at any time of the day or night, thinking of how I could have said or done things better. My mind composes and edits and re-edits what I could say to a person (any person) with whom I’m having difficulty relating. The person(s) could be anyone who I feel I may have hurt, or offended, or who I feel has offended or disrespected me.

         Those mental compositions of words to say can go on for hours when I have insomnia.

         Sometimes I re-run in my mind events that have happened in the difficult relationship, and I mentally imagine how I could have or should have handled it better, and I mentally imagine how the other person could / should have better responded to me. I used to do that a lot when I was living with my first abusive husband and ditto with my second abusive husband. So, in my mind, I’m moving things about into various positions, as you put it.

      7. Barbara, yep we listen to our mind chatter and believe it and act on it and it just about drives us insane….[Some] of our thoughts can be let go of and not acted upon, nor held [in?] importance….[Book recommendation not shared at the request of the commenter.]….the process of letting go [of some of our thoughts] healthfully, not supressing or expressing. But layer by layer letting go of the insanity of letting these thoughts scream for attention. I had years of this and it about led me to drink. I didn’t know HOW to stop the cycle….I am thrilled to be letting go of all my triggers one by one. Is it easy, NO! But the process is….doable [by many people]. I understand you won’t share this on the blog but know I send this to YOU with love because I know this torture firsthand and care about the work you do and the person you are. I have deep respect for you.

         [Some information that Sarah wrote was kept — and lightly edited — because it says some things that some of our readers might find helpful. Editors.]

      8. Hi Sarah,

         I hope you don’t mind….after passing your comment along by email to Barb, I took the liberty of lightly editing your comment. 😊 You wrote some things in your comment that some of our readers might find helpful. 😊

      9. Hi Sarah, thanks for your comment. I really like this wording you used:

         …layer by layer letting go of the insanity of letting these thoughts scream for attention.

         Blessings to you, and thank you for caring about me and the work that I do. 🙂

      10. Hi Paul, I have read this comment of yours (4 March 2024) carefully. I have added some words in square brackets and some formatting, to make it more easily read. Let me know if you do not approve of my amendments. 🙂

          Your comment could be shaped into a stand-alone blog post. It is very good. But I’m not going to invite you to publish it as a guest post, because I know I don’t have the energy to do that at the moment. Sorry.

          You said:

          My faith as a new Christian was overthrown and this misled me into making many wrong choices and not growing in grace, which resulted in spiritual deception and falling into many sins, which I have repented of and accept responsibility for. The Satanic deception was the twisting of various scriptures which I had been brain-washed with, and the counsel of a so-called man of God. Satan used the scriptures and twisted them when tempting Jesus and he still uses the same tactic.

          I believe you. I hear your pain. It sounds like you and I have had somewhat similar experiences. You and I were both born again and then when we went to church we were taught LOTS of wrong stuff, and the people in church modelled lots of wrong practices, and we tried to comply with their churchianity doctines and culture, and it harmed us. We did not grow in Christ. We suffered and got traumatised and were terribly sidetracked in our growth in the Lord.

          Now, we (both you and I) are seeing through a lot (if not yet all) of the falsehoods and wrong culture which churchianity taught us. As Johnny Cash says in his brilliant song Like A Soldier (from the album Unearthed, Box Set) —

          I’m like a soldier getting over the war.

          Go here to see the lyrics: Like a Soldier [Internet Archive link]

      11. Paul’s comment mentioned Psalm 55. Here is Spurgeon’s exposition of Psalm 55.

      12. Sisters, as I was reading this morning something jumped out from the scriptures.

          I am no expert on gender roles within the church and have not time to get into this right now, but offer some points and then will write about what I read.

          I believe scripture confirms that we were created with the gift of free will. God will not force Himself on us as unbelievers or believers. I believe grace both common and redemptive can be resisted.

          As I will agree with the U.S.A. constitution that all men and women are created equal and have the same God-given human rights and hold this is scriptural, I hold that all men and women universal have the same God-given human and Christian rights which God and I respect. God has give all [people] the right to chose to believe and practice what they wish.

          This does not mean that God is the author and approver of our sinful choices or approves of how all unbelievers and believers practice these rights or that I do. We will all give an account to God for this. So I am not advocating social, spiritual or political antinomian anarchy and the promise of freedom while serving corruption.

          With rights come responsibilities, and my right to marriage or sexual relationship does not give me licence to sexually assault a woman, which includes my wife or put a gun to some girls head and force her to marry me. That would be lawlessness and wrong.

          But is appears to me that some believers wish to deny all others their rights, but expect that the powers to be and all others uphold and protect their rights, which is hypocritical. I do not approve of the twisting of scripture to justify the abuse, persecution and oppression of any people group as some seek to practice. Why do we expect the powers to be to protect and serve us but not others?

          I think this is another form of spiritual abuse towards all others in social, spiritual and political life.

          God permits sinners to reject Him and His ways, and we all need to stop playing God, who is capable of running His own world and creation without you and me as He is self-sufficient.

          Only God can move human beings to make God consistent choices in matters of life, faith, and death and only they can choose to respond. God will not force them and we cannot force them. Sorry but I do not believe in forced conversion and am not some religious extremist. Think you all understand what I am thinking of and for the sake of keeping things peaceful I will not say.

          As I understand things women and men have the same human and Christian rights in life and in Christ. One was not created above the other and both were created with an equally important gender role and have need of each other. I am not saying a man cannot be a nurse or nanny, or [a] woman cannot be a boss in work or cannot do a traditional man’s job.

          I believe there are scriptures which teach that woman can pray, preach, teach and be used by God to minister through the same gifts in the church [as] all men can. I am not too sure about a woman holding the office of lead pastor, but have no issue with woman pastors within the body as long as the lead one is male, but [I] am open. I do not believe that women who are lead pastors will lose their salvation for this.

          But I have listened to many a woman in the pulpit and have no issue with the sisters.

          God created a woman to fulfil the wonderful purpose He created you all for and the same applies to all us men. But my purpose as a man is not more important than the sisters and I honour you all for all you do. Men who cannot be open to listen to women are full of male pride and likewise women who will not listen to men are filled with female pride. I understand and sympathise with the fact that some women and men have had such a negative experience with the opposite sex that this can cause issues in these matters, but [I] hope that in these cases good men help the men to heal and good women help the women to heal.

          Paul wrote about brother going to war with brother, but it sometimes seems that due to the sins and abusive acts of some men and women that we have the sisterhood versus the brotherhood.

          I am for all good men and all good women.

          In 1 Corinthians 7:25-28 we read in verse 26 about men. We read of their Christian rights in these matters but in verse 28 we read about sisters. What jumped out was the fact that the same Christian rights and instruction was equally given to both male and female, which proves that Paul, the Holy Spirit, and God do not think us men can apply these scriptures like we are at some market and treat the sisters like market meat. I mean we should all not agree with human trafficking. Of course the same principle applies to the sisters concerning men. Not sure if I would have much of an offer put on me anyway. L.O.L. That is a joke, sisters.

          The point is that I believe that the same equal Christian rights within marriage when it comes to the physical union, the marriage, divorce and remarriage applies to both genders and that some have twisted this to suit their wrong view of some women abusing God which suits women abusing men. I believe this was true under the Law and grace.

          Woman have suffered spiritual abuse and I cry for justice. This abuse has been used to advocate domestic and sexual abuse and is sin.

          The above verses confirm that both genders had the same rights and we see the same applied in verses 1 to 5 in the same chapter [1 Corinthians 7:1-5]. As a man I do not want my wife to have sex with me because I am abusing her into this. But as she wants to out of love. Your wife is not some hooker who you abuse like her pimp. Maybe some men enjoy the sadistic control like some rapist. Repent.

          Think of the amount of women, and I am sure men, who have suffered this abuse all in the name of Jesus. I do not have a son, but if I did I would not want to set the example to him that he should abuse women or his wife. Some of you so-called men of God have set this example to your flock and you need to repent.

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