UPDATE Sept 2021: I have come to believe that Jeff Crippen does not practise what he preaches. He vilely persecuted an abuse victim and spiritually abused many other people in the Tillamook congregation. Go here to read the evidence. Jeff has not gone to the people that he spiritually and emotionally abused. He has not apologised to them, let alone asked for their forgiveness.
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1 Corinthians 6:9-11 ESV Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, (10) nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. (11) And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
The comments that follow were made by someone in response to the article we posted on the 50 Shades of Grey craze (Abuse and Pornography: 50 Shades of Grey, or Black and White Evil?). I post this individual’s comment here because this individual claims to be a Bible-believing Christian. I would like to think that such “Christians” are few and far between, but I suspect that is not the case. It is incredible to me, and, indeed even unbelievable, that any genuine child of God in Christ would need more than about 60 seconds to determine that Fifty Shades of Grey is obnoxious to God, that it is graphic portrayal of what the Bible calls fornication, and is in no way something that any Christian would desire to justify. Incidentally, I have not heard anyone mention yet the most obvious evil portrayed in this book. Please correct me if I am wrong, but I am under the impression that the chief characters in this story, the woman and the man, are not married? Have we come so far in our downgraded thinking that fornication (sex outside of marriage) is unquestionably acceptable to God? For this reason alone no one should embrace this book (actually a series of books).
And then do we even need to be reminded that Fifty Shades of Grey is in no way a friend of abuse victims? The theme is power and control over another. Wait a minute! Haven’t we heard that somewhere before?
At any rate, here is what this commenter has to say. Frankly, I find it all rather similar to sitting down and having a chat with the devil — “Indeed, hath God said….?” And while chatting with the devil is not something we should do, I suspect that many Christians today are being exposed to his representatives whose deceptions may be very similar to this. (spelling errors are left as submitted) —
I am Christian and very conservative and spiritual and I will let my two cents be known.
While I have not read The 50 Shades of Grey series, I will say This concerning the misinformed negative comments made by some here about Adult Consensual Heterosexual Sexual activities known as Sado Masochistic S&M and Bondage & Discipline B&D.Sado Masochistic S&M and Bondage & Discipline B&D Sexual activities between a man and woman are a part of sexual diversity not perversity. We are not talking about pedophilia or bestiality here. There is nothing Evil in being Flagellated Spanked etc, if done in the right proportional context with those who want and need this. It is normal and an intensive form of sexual activity and relief. For those needing and understanding this It is a form of love, respect understanding. Those people commenting here that such activities are “Satanic”, Evil, Perverse” etc. They are Wrong. They are misguided, small minded and narrow-minded. These activities are practiced and apart of the sexual activities of many loving couples. It seems so many Americans are,”Puritans” Many of these misguided people often beat their children under the guise of The Lords command, Spare the Rod etc. They are hypocrites and have no binding word on what loving consensual couples do amongst themselves. Many Americans also flock to destructive religious cults and become realy abused, marginalized, enslaved and destroyed.
I have no shame or guilt and stand before God saying this as I know I am not doing wrong. Can S&M/B&D Activities be abused and perverted in a suedo religion etc. Sure they can, Has it happened, Yes it has. Do People engaged in the occult,i.e. witch craft and satanism do these actives, Yes some do and yes some practitioners of wicca peddle their occult activates attached to sexual activities. No doubt about that. Does that mean that these activities amongst loving consenting couples are all evil and to be avoided? The answer is No. One must know self discipline and proportionally just as with anything else, when an activity or activity becomes the master of your life, be it sexual- pornography or a bottle or things like, I cant stop smoking, eating, or being on the Internet etc, than there is a problem. I can not agree to religious fanaticism, narrow-mindedness and Close-mindedness which has lead repeatedly to marginalization, personal , destruction, hurt and real enslavement.
A Cry For Justice 
I’ve heard this one before. Actually, its not an argument as they offer nothing to back up such broad statements, they simply make an assertion. “You claim it’s wrong but I say it’s not.”
There’s simply no way to argue that pornography, fornication and other sexual sins are okay but i don’t think this commenter is doing that. Instead, they are trying to say that a married, monogamous Christian couple can practice SMBD. That SMBD is not perverse and that anyone who says differently is ‘narrow minded’ and ‘religious fanaticism’. I also note they use the word ‘need’ here– as in, some people ‘need’ this for ‘relief’.
If someone ‘needs’ to be bound, gagged and whipped to experience ‘relief’ there’s a problem deep inside that person’s soul. If a person ‘needs’ to bind, gag and whip another, they have a perverse desire to cause pain to others which goes completely contrary to the fruit of the Spirit and the nature of Christ. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to see this.
IMO, one of the scariest things out there is when two of these broken souls find each other and, instead of going to the cross and staying there until the Lord of Glory pours out his deliverance and healing upon their wounded hearts, begin to act out the darkness inside, even reveling in it and calling it good. I’d really like to see them standing before Christ and explaining this one in the presence of a holy God on Judgement Day when the One who was bound and whipped for their freedom is standing right there and try to explain why they refused His free gift that cost Him so much.
On second thought, I’d really rather not be there to witness that one.
Ida Mae, thank you for your words of godly wisdom and loving truth.
If a person is using the words “loving” and “bondage” in the same context, something is tragically wrong. It breaks my heart.
“Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its lusts, and do not go on presenting the members of your body to sin as instruments of unrighteousness; but present yourselves to God as those alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.
“What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be!
Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness?
“But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed, and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.” Romans 6:12-18
Bravo Ida Mae!!!!! Well put!!
Cindy, I so agree with you! I am watching what is going on around us and even within our Christian family and am appalled at how deceived and led astray so many are. Sin no longer has any personal meaning and to mention it is to be labeled a hater. Dear Lord, Their eyes are blinded and their ears shut!!! So many have been sucked into the abyss of “Tolerance” and “Political Correctness” !!!
Ida Mae, and Cindy, you have replied to Jeff’s post so well that I have nothing to say except give you praise. Thank you.
Jeff, I find the way you have created this post abusive, shaming and speaking of a Christian woman as like “speaking to the devil” is abusive and unacceptable. We must be careful not to equate BDSM and abuse within the same breath. The 50 Shades novels are horrifically abusive and it is not the BDSM elements which make this the case as such. The main male character Christian Grey stalks the main female character Ana Steele. He restricts her diet, isolates her, manipulates her into signing a contract that will allow him to abuse her sexually and many other tactics of abuse. And in the last book Ana’s love changes him and causes him to becoming non-abusive. As a website and ministry focussed on preventing abuse and supporting those who have been abused I find it reprehensible the tone you have taken with the woman who commented above, it is in and of itself abusive. I also would suggest that you learn more about the books to be able to critique them from a stand point of domestic abuse prevention and awareness.
Hmmm… let’s see. And what would be your definition of a Christian? Someone who defends this kind of evil? I do indeed equate perverted sexual practices such as BDSM with abuse. So let’s see, you would have us approach this issue and advise women that if they will just do as Ana Steele did, they can lead their abuser to Christ? They should permit him to subject them to this wickedness? Man or woman – anyone who defends 50 Shades as permissible and fine, just some “alternative” of choice, is speaking for evil, plain and simple. And pardon me if I don’t learn more about the books, ie, read them. I know quite enough about them already.
I think the 50 shades series are utterly atrocious, my intention in the comment above was not to promote them. I am more than 100% against them. But if we respond to any person in a way that is abusive, as you have done so above, then we are no longer in the right either. 50 shades is primarily dangerous because of how it is promoting abuse as normal, acceptable and something to aspire to. To make it about “sex before marriage” or non-abusive consensual sexual activities both weakens your point and makes you sound less credible as an anti-violence against women advocate.
Why is it abuse?
If you’re married and ease into it over the course of months / years.
That verse about the marriage bed being undefiled, doesn’t it mean anything goes as long as you’re married?
It’s a real question, not just being a jerk. That’s what my husband always said. I don’t know. It’s not something that comes up in pre-marital counseling in a specific way, and just how does one go about asking your own pastor without risking making your husband look bad? And then, well it takes two. It’s a bit personal.
UPDATE Sept 2021: I have come to believe that Jeff Crippen does not practise what he preaches. He vilely persecuted an abuse victim and spiritually abused many other people in the Tillamook congregation. Go here to read the evidence. Jeff has not gone to the people that he spiritually and emotionally abused. He has not apologised to them, let alone asked for their forgiveness.
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Dear Anonymous, I’ll reply to both your comments here, and wherever I quote you, I’ll put it in a block quote.
I think you have assumed that the individual whose message Jeff quoted in this post is a woman. I have read the post very carefully several times and cannot find any indication of that individual’s gender, nor can I find that Jeff drew any conclusions in his post about the person’s gender. So I think you are mistaken in assuming that Jeff was admonishing a woman.
I have actually talked this over with Jeff and he tells me that when he wrote the post, he had privately considered the individual was probably a man. But whatever the individual’s gender, I believe Jeff’s criticism of the individual’s comment would have been the same.
I freely admit to not having read any of the 50 shades books. I understand that you may have read or skimmed the books, or a synopsis of the plots, in order to critique them. I myself have no intention to read any of the 50 Shades books. That being said, I believe I am able to comment on what you wrote to some extent.
I agree that we cannot simplistically equate BDSM with abuse; BDSM is probably a sub-type of intimate partner abuse. Not all abuse involves BDSM, but I would think that all BDSM includes aspects of what we on this blog define as abuse, whether or not the participants realize or admit to this.
I agree that the 50 shades novels are horrifically abusive.
I agree that those power and control tactics are typical of abusers. and any novel that endorses such conduct is endorsing abuse.
That fantasy ending was no doubt written to make readers think that all the abuse the male character did was ‘not really bad,’ and that if women comply with being abused, they can love abusers out of their malice and into goodness – a fantasy that many victims of abuse have for years before they eventually come to see the truth about the hard heart of their abuser.
Is it really necessary to claim that the coercive control in the non-sexual aspects of the relationship between Christian and Ana is what makes the novels abusive, rather than the coercive control in the sexual part of their relationship? Aren’t you positing a false dichotomy? Why not just say that their relationship displays abuse in multitudes of ways, and leave it at that?
I think you may be making a logical fallacy if you are saying that what makes the novels abusive is not so much the BDSM, but other features of the relationship between the protagonists.
I think that Jeff could have worded his point about fornication a little better. But immediately after he talked about the fornication between the novel’s protagonists, he pointed out that “Fifty Shades of Grey is in no way a friend of abuse victims. The theme is power and control over another.” So I think you have unfairly misrepresented Jeff’s arguments, and have possibly been biased against him just because you assumed he was being harsh to a woman.
With best wishes —– Barb
Check out the Lord Jesus and the apostle Paul. Did they ever respond to evil people in terms that blasted them? Or the Psalms in which evil doers are soundly and in no uncertain terms called what they are. Sorry but when someone, as the supposed “christian” in the original post calls evil good, then they reveal themselves to be wolves in wool, apparent angels of light yet sons of the devil. Your approach would insist that we be “nice” to abuse and those who exercise it and that is the very attitude that is protecting evil in our churches.
Amen and hallelujah! You have said that very well, Pastor Crippen. I don’t know why it is so hard for victims to address things with boldness and no fear, but it sure is. I have realized through your writings though, that allowing abuse to go on and on, is allowing evil to have the place of rule. I am learning that those who call evil good, are really evil themselves. I really need to learn to be able to rebuke abuse and evil, and stop letting it go on in my life and in the Church. People just don’t get what evil really is and that we really ought not to condone it, by denying it for what it really is.
I like the “wolves in wool” statement. I am going to make that my new substitute for the term I usually use!
Rachel Miller has published this post on 50 Shades of Grey. It’s worth reading, especially if you need help in mustering arguments about why the book is bad.
Fifty Shades of Grey: Harmless Fun or Spiritual Warfare? [Internet Archive link]
And Aimee Byrd has written an excellent post about 50 shades in view of the upcoming film based on the book. The discussion thread at this post is lively.
50 Shades of Strange [Internet Archive link]
Not knowing what BDSM is, I Googled it, and, the results were pretty damning. If most of the hits were porn sites, then perhaps it’s not an area to investigate further.
When pondering the comment
I venture into wondering HOW did it ease into the bedroom? How does a couple ease into it? How did they learn about BDSM? Books? Movies? Past experiences? Porn sites? Per Matt 5:27, it seems the bed was defiled somehow someway BEFORE the BDSM was initiated and brought into the bedroom. ….going outside the bedroom in search of “stuff” to bring INTO the bedroom defiles it. Just my $.02
[Eds, we have combined two comments from anewanon that were almost duplicates]
Anewanon,
I never asked where the ideas came from. Eventually I knew because he brought videos home that got more violent over time. A lot of things weren’t right and they became progressively worse, but my husband was justifying everything with scripture or quoting marriage advice heard from somewhere.
I managed to put the brakes on by acting homicidal and a bit crazy eyed and played and replayed the same music over and over again. I scared him with my Stepford Wives act and music. He would tell me to turn it off and I’d turn on the sweetness or crazy eyed coldness and he never knew how I would respond… well it worked and he backed off and things toned down to a more acceptable level.
I’m reading stuff here and talking to some good friends and realizing that what I saw as acceptable really isn’t. So when you say that where the ideas came from is evidence of it being defiled that makes a kind of sense to me. My H had a scriptural reason for why the origin didn’t matter. The only thing that mattered was that we were married.
I’m finding out that there’s a lot more to it. This is stuff no one talked about before 50 Shades. I’m glad the books were written and that the movie was made. At least now it is being talked about and questions can be asked.
A brief comment….
I never read the books nor watched the movie. The TV trailer for the movie was enough to stamp it “No!”.
The saddest thing? A trailer showing a movie out with some big name actresses who use the Fifty Shades book for their book club. And people will buy into it….