What a Pastor Should Not Say to an Abuse Victim — an example from Lou Priolo (advice for pastors Part 4, by Ps Jeff Crippen)

51 thoughts on “What a Pastor Should Not Say to an Abuse Victim — an example from Lou Priolo (advice for pastors Part 4, by Ps Jeff Crippen)”

1. “If any pastor desires to learn what NOT to say or do when an abuse victim comes to him, I think Priolo’s work would be the place to go.”

   AMEN! Well stated!

2. Someone sent this book to me right after I left (after the husband visited them and cried at their table.) I scanned it, then threw it in the trashcan. What a horrible waste of paper.

3. Makes my blood boil too!! So I guess the only Godly alternative to divorcing the abuser is to let him kill you??? And that is not going to scar or damage the family as a divorce would?? I think God is going to have a few things to say to Mr. Priolo when his time comes!

   1. My thoughts exactly– only I couldn’t quit spitting long enough to type it out. Thanks Joey-

4. It’s all horrific, but for me the worst of all is that guy’s use of the Hebrews text. ’You have not yet resisted to the point of shedding blood in your striving against sin’ (Heb 12:4).
   Let me show you a grave of a woman who might have tried to obey that twisted interpretation of Hebrews 12:4.
   

   She was such a good woman: she didn’t resist when he cut off her arm.

   Id Mae, your bin is cousin to my bin. My rubbish bin received a brand new boxed set of audio tapes (this was in the late ’90s) about Fighting Spiritual Warfare in your Family.

   It had been dropped, anonymously at my front door soon after I kicked my husband out.
   I’d rather they left some dog excrement!

   1. Yes, when people use that Hebrews text it is particularly cruel. It simultaneously minimizes the great suffering victims are already going through and it lays on them the horrid notion that God has called them to literal martyrdom at the hands of their abuser. I have to wonder about the real motives and heart of anyone who would do such a thing in the name of God’s Word. Is it only that they are wrong about abuse, or is their entire concept of God wrong? It is a fair question to ask.

      1. Jeff, for their notion of a godly response to abuse to be so wrong, their concept of God HAS to be wrong. Our perception of godliness is a direct reflection of our perception of the nature of God.

5. I wasn’t really surprised to read any of his comments as it reflects the typical thinking and reasoning of church folk. But when I got that part “Has he shot you or stabbed you yet?” my heart skipped a beat. I wonder if anyone has been shot or stabbed because of advice he personally gave. I actually do know of one who suffered shocking consequences similar to that. She would have never guessed that her life (and that of her children) would be so irrevocably turned upside down by tragic events – all she was doing was trying to stay in a marriage and probably following the advice along the lines given by Priolo. There was no concrete evidence to the outside world that he was anything but a faithful, though “imperfect”, husband. Only she knew but she wasn’t allowed to do anything with what she knew.

   1. Yes, and once we understand all of this, we see why these kinds of counsel and books are so wicked. No, the authors aren’t trying to be evil and they think they are helping. But they are like well-intentioned (not all are well-intentioned) but unlicensed and untrained medical doctors out and about doing surgeries and prescribing medicines and killing people as they do. Priolo would probably be a very nice man if you met him, but the end result of this stuff he is writing can kill people, or at a minimum place them into many more years of horrible suffering and bondage. I don’t like having to slam people like Priolo, but we have to sound a loud warning to the dangerous effects of teachings like this.

6. It is a bad or maybe horrid interpretation of Hebrews 12:4 here. I don’t believe that this verse intends for us to believe that God expects us to put up with abuse until we have shed blood, but sadly, this man’s interpretation will most likely be believed by others who are striving to please God in their abusive marriages and cause them to believe that God is overhead with his “bat in hand”, waiting for them to make the wrong move, just like their abuser does to them, so that He can punish them. I am just coming out of some of this and it IS what I have believed, so it is hard not to slip back into those beliefs, when someone as trusted and popular as Mr. Priolo says it!

   Does this thinking play into the part of God’s sovereignty and providence that says He put us there and expects us to stay, unless He comes down, opens the door Himself and tells us to leave? How do we address this thinking? What Scriptures can we provide to others and ourselves, to alleviate this kind of guilt and torment, that we are supposed to believe is what God wants for us?

   1. Anonymous, there are numerous scriptures demonstrating God’s heart of protection and redemption toward those trapped in a covenant of abusive bondage. Jeff has shared a number of them in prior posts on this site.

      I recently shared two Bible stories on my blog, that both demonstrate a godly response to abuse, while fully recognizing God’s sovereignty and providence: Forgiveness with Boundaries [Internet Archive link] and Reconciled by Trial [Internet Archive link]

   2. Dear Anonymous, on page 42 of my book (Not Under Bondage [Affiliate link]) I dealt with Hebrews 12:4. This is what I wrote:

      Some claim that separation or divorce should only be allowed if the abuse is life threatening. Hebrews 12:4 is sometimes used to support this argument. There are difficulties with this approach. Hebrews 12:4 is about persecution relating to Christian commitment, yet most domestic abuse occurs irrespective of Christian commitment [that is, irrespective of whether the victim is a Christian or not]. Furthermore, when the abuse threatens life, it may be too late to escape.

      To tell victims they can’t leave unless their life is threatened is to condemn them to a defeatist depression with no end in sight. The victim dreads the abuse, and yet is encouraged to hope for a life threatening situation – because only then is divorce permissible. This attitude is callous to victims. It also places a premium on physical violence and minimizes the ‘living death’ effects of emotional abuse.

      1. The book of Hebrews was written to Hebrew Christians who, under persecution, were tempted to abandon their covenant with Christ and return to Old Testament Judaism.

         To try to apply this passage to a marriage is pure idolatry…elevating a temporal human covenant to the same level as our eternal covenant with Christ.

         Moreover, in the case of the Hebrew Christians to whom the letter was written, the persecution was coming from enemies of their covenant partner, Jesus Christ, and they were being asked to be willing to submit to torture and death, in defense of their covenant partner.

         This in no way compares to an abusive marriage where the persecution comes from the covenant partner himself!

      2. Joe, thank you! This is excellent. I wish I had had your thoughts to draw on when I was writing Not Under Bondage!

      3. Joe – Any pastor surely knows the context of Hebrews 12:4 and therefore when they apply it to an abuse victim in a “marriage,” the distortion of the Scripture is intentional and knowing. To further one’s own private agenda, we are all far too willing to jerk a verse of God’s Word out of its context and send it as a flaming missile.

      4. Glad it was helpful! They say that even a blind pig finds an acorn, now and then… 😉

      5. Jeff – Yes, I started to add that I couldn’t believe any Christian pastor could be either so ignorant as to believe this passage had anything to do with marriage, or would be so blatantly unconcerned about context and usage as to try to make it fit a marriage situation. But…then…sadly, I realized that it’s not that hard to believe…

7. I haven’t read the book, or seen it for that matter, but it sounds horrible and dangerous. Those of you who have read it might want to consider writing a comment on Amazon.com reviews to help prevent it doing any further harm.

   1. Good idea, Pippa!

8. There it is! Mr. Priolo actually wrote what we know many, many pastors believe! That is the really scary part. Obviously, we still have a lot of work to do. Time to have a little chat about what’s unbiblical.

   What publisher agreed to pick that one up, I wonder. One for the dumper.

   1. Ooh my imagination just ran wild. I saw not a dumper, but a public book-burning.
      A giant bonfire. Let the Reformation begin!

      You’re right, Cindy, that’s what many pastors really believe. And one of them finally said it! More fool him. But we have to be grateful that he paints the picture so starkly. It tells us what we are really fighting about.

   2. Yes, until its their daughter who’s suffering. Reality has a way of changing the hardest heart.

   3. The Publisher is the prestigious Presbyterian and Reformed Publishing.

      1. … which explains a lot.

      2. P&R declined to publish my book. But I gave them the ‘Stuck in a Bog’ award for giving the slowest answer. I think they took 17 months before they sent me their final ‘No’.

9. The mindset and belief system that Mr. Priolo writes about is also prevalent among some Christian Counselors/Psychologist. I have heard from them, almost word for word, the same responses that Mr. Priolo gave to the “common ‘excuses’ for not staying in a marriage.”
   I’ve loved all your comments here, and Barbara, I’ll bring the marshmallows….on second thought, maybe not. I couldn’t stomach books like this the first time around.

   1. Yeah, Song, let’s not toast our marshmallows at the flames that resemble the fires of Hell. We’ll have a nice ordinary campfire somewhere else, where we can toast marshmallows, drink cocoa, and roast spuds, and bananas wrapped in foil with chocolate in their middles. While they are roasting, we can all be learning each others’ real names!

10. Reblogged this on Prophetshrek [Internet Archive link] and commented:
    Pastor Jeff Crippen is dead on on his opinion of this book and the author Lou Priolo

11. One of our readers wrote to P&R, the publishers of Lou Priolo’s booklet. Her letter said:

    Dear P & R Publishing,

    As a member of the PCA and an avid reader of your books, I am very disappointed that you would publish and distribute the book, Divorce, by Lou Priolo. I have been in an abusive marriage for over 25 years and seen the damage done to children who witness verbal and emotional abuse. When the abuse got so bad as to endanger our lives, I brought the matter to my PCA church and they made the situation much worse. You can read my abbreviated story here:

    https://cryingoutforjustice.wordpress.com/2012/08/04/horrific-case-of-church-abuse/

    This book does nothing to inform its readers of the dangerous reality of domestic abuse. If this is what PCA pastors are reading, no wonder they are incompetent to help Christ’s sheep who are being devoured by the wolves within the flock. Eventually, it is likely that lawsuits will force change in this area when someone is injured or killed by their abusers after getting ‘help’ from the church.

    Please read a short, but very accurate review of this book here:

    https://cryingoutforjustice.wordpress.com/2012/06/26/pastors-and-abuse-lou-priolo-is-clueless-about-abuse-part-4-by-jeff-crippen/

    You are harming the people of God with such books. I am sure that you do not intend to do so and hope that you will distribute material that will help, rather than hurt people.

    Sincerely, –––––––––––––

    P&R replied to this woman’s correspondence as follows:

    Thank you for writing and we are sorry that you found Lou’s booklet on divorce so disappointing.

    There is only so much you can put in a booklet and so you’ll notice that Lou’s booklet does not address the issue of an abusive marriage—and that is deliberate—this booklet is not intended for people in your situation and should not be used as such unless other steps are being taken in that area.

    Lou’s opinion is that the issue of abuse within marriage, as it is not mentioned in connection with scripture passages on divorce, is one that should be dealt with by churches—primarily as a counseling and disciplinary issue. We are sorry if your church was not as helpful as you hoped. That process may well end in divorce but that is something that a local body should address as they spiritually and relationally discern the issues involved.

    Whilst I do not think that the above will necessarily change your opinion, we trust that you are able to grow in Christ in all you seek to do.

    Yours sincerely _____________

    Barbara Roberts comments on this reply:

    This makes us at A Cry For Justice ask the question:– Why did Lou Priolo not put a caveat on the back cover of his booklet, stating This booklet does not address the issue of an abusive marriage and is not intended for use in situations of marital abuse.

    We contend that without such a caveat, the author and publishers of this book are being negligent to victims of domestic abuse, as well as to pastors who are dealing with abusive marriages in their congregations.

    1. This makes us at A Cry For Justice ask the question:– Why did Lou Priolo not put a caveat on the back cover of his booklet, stating This booklet does not address the issue of an abusive marriage and is not intended for use in situations of marital abuse.

       We contend that without such a caveat, the author and publishers of this book are being negligent to victims of domestic abuse, as well as to pastors who are dealing with abusive marriages in their congregations.

       Exactly this.

12. “Why did Lou Priolo not put a caveat on the back cover of his booklet, stating This booklet does not address the issue of an abusive marriage and is not intended for use in situations of marital abuse?”

    Jeff, I hear what your saying, and there was a time I would have agreed. In fact, I would still agree that this should be done at an absolute bare minimum.

    However, my personal current view is that anyone who is not prepared and willing to biblically deal with the topic of abuse, at some level, has no business writing a book on the topic of divorce. That would be like writing a book on cooking while neglecting to mention ingredients or cooking temperatures…such a glaring and obvious oversight as to make the book completely meaningless if not downright harmful.

    1. Well said, Joe. You are right on the money here.

       1. After clicking the “post” button, I realized a more apt comparison might be to writing a book on marksmanship while neglecting to mention firearms safety procedures…

       2. Same thing here, only I was thinking of lawnmowers or power tools. “Do not use this lawnmower to trim your hedge. Death or serious injury may result.”

       3. Perhaps something like, “Notice: This book is intended for use by those with only minor marital issues, especially those desiring to sit in judgment on others with more serious marital issues. Real people with real issues are advised not to read this book, as we have no advice or hope to offer such people.”

    2. Joe – yes, I see your point. In fact, and what we didn’t say in this comment was that we believe that the real reason no “caveat” is printed in such books is that the authors simply have no clue about abuse. P&R’s answer doesn’t really hold up under scrutiny. It makes no sense to say that “well, the author just decided not to cover the issue of abuse in this book about divorce.”

    3. UPDATE Sept 2021: I have come to believe that Jeff Crippen does not practise what he preaches. He vilely persecuted an abuse victim and spiritually abused many other people in the Tillamook congregation. Go here to read the evidence. Jeff has not gone to the people that he spiritually and emotionally abused. He has not apologised to them, let alone asked for their forgiveness.

       ***

       Joe and Jeff C, I agree with you both. My suggested caveat on the back cover would actually be insufficient.
       And I totally agree: it is immoral to write any doctrinal or pastoral book on divorce without addressing abuse.

       And just in case any authors or would-be authors on divorce are reading this, I want you to know that I and all other survivors of domestic abuse are sick of our issue being treated by authors (and publishers) as an afterthought. It is not adequate to relegate our issue to
       a footnote
       a paranthesis
       a sentence or paragraph buried in some place towards the end of the book
       or even a chapter in the latter part of the book.

       Authors, publishers and academics: please hear me! Our issue, the issue of domestic abuse, needs to be canvassed in the introduction and the first chapter of any written work on marriage problems or divorce, so that readers will be able to clearly identify and discern What Domestic Abuse Is, and whether the author is going to adequately address the topic.

13. Notice what the person responding states is Joe Priolo’s opinion on abuse.

    “Lou’s opinion is that the issue of abuse within marriage, as it is not mentioned in connection with scripture passages on divorce, is one that should be dealt with by churches—primarily as a counseling and disciplinary issue.”

    “That process may well end in divorce but that is something that a local body should address as they spiritually and relationally discern the issues involved.”

    Hmm. Looks like they suggest that Laura do exactly what she did. Go to the church and let the church discern the situation and handle any discipline or counseling matters. Obviously, had she gone to Joe Priolo first, his advice would have been incorrect as going to the church had devastating results for her. She offered them her story on doing just as he would have suggested and instead of taking her message to heart, they brushed it off. It seems that most of these “experts” just want to push the responsiblity of helping an abuse victim off on someone else. They’re not willing to get their hands dirty and do the real work of helping victims, including and especially children. It’s truly disgusting.

    Laura, you did a great job with that letter. I pray that your story will help many victims.

    1. Excellent point, JM.
       Case proven.

14. You have not yet resisted to the point of shedding blood in your striving against sin (Heb 12:4)

    Feeling on the edge of puking here. I’ve had that verse directed at me several years ago.
    So many familiar things in this series. 😦

15. A survivor advocate we know has written to P & R Publishing expressing her concerns about Priolo’s booklet. Here is the reply she received from the vice-president of the company:

    Thank you for your considered response and for your intention to contact Dr. Priolo. That’s probably a good course of action to take.

    I think he would be open to adding a comment that abuse cases need a different approach.

    I am sure that Lou does think that such cases are serious, although the vast majority of non-abuse cases that a counselor sees are usually exaggerated. It’s in discerning those from the genuine cases where all counselors need specific wisdom.

    Needless to say, I am very concerned that a Christian publishing executive would state categorically that “the vast majority of non-abuse cases that a counselor sees are usually exaggerated.” How would a publisher know this, I ask? Do publishers know a lot about the professional experience of counselors? Do they know whether the counselors know enough about abuse to recognise a case of abuse when is right in front of them? Do publishers have any idea how well, or more to the point, how poorly counselors are trained in domestic abuse? Good grief; so many presuppositions made by this gentleman. . . it boggles my mind.

    And what on earth is a ‘non-abuse case that is exaggerated’?

16. There are no words to express my disgust and disappointment to these so called “Christian ministers” who are defending the abusers and minimizing the pains of those being abused. They are reading the bible but not understanding its application. Horrible, horrible. To these people, walk in the abused shoes and see how it change your irresponsible, immature, unchristian mind. Repent because you are bringing shame to the name of our Saviour by your words.

17. When I told my parents that I had been battling suicidal thoughts, they made me go to counseling with a leader from their church. He told me that suicide and thoughts of suicide were sins, and I needed to go to confession.

    1. Temptation in itself is not a sin. The devil tempted Jesus with suicide if you recall, by telling Him to throw Himself off a high place. The counsel you were given is dangerous and wrong.

    2. How disappointing and sad (and disgusting) that the “help” you got was to tell you to confess your sins. What you needed was empathy, understanding and a referral to someone who understands that suicidal thoughts are a symptom of serious depression and that depression is often a medical problem, treated with medication. I hope you will seek out the help you need. Praying for you.

18. I’m going to go out on a limb here. This kind of horrendous counseling is one of the major reasons I converted to Catholocism at the age of 43. So far my marriage is stabilized, but there was a period that was extremely rocky and i was asking a lot of questions. I also had several good friends who were in intolerable situations but felt “stuck” bc of church teachings. One thing i realized as i studied Catholic theology was that the secularization of society contributed to this conundrum. We, Christians, had come to equate sacramental marriage w a civil union. So that, in trying to teach what someone should do in case of abuse, for example, we were making both equal. They’re not, and as far as i can tell, only the Catholic church recognizes this. Pastorally, the Church bends over backwards to identify reasons for annullment (the determination that a sacramental marriage never took place) and this is commonly scenarios like, the mate lied to you before marriage about something vital, like debt, intent to have children, previous marriage, drug habit, citizenship,etc. So dishonesty is a big one. Coercion is another, any type. Inability to give free consent, due to extreme immaturity, or for example using marriage to escape abuse in family of origin. If any number of these types of things can be demonstrated, you get a do over. Ok. Now, say you cant meet the requirements for an annullment. And abuse, or fornication do NOT meet the terms. In Catholicism, once you are sacramentally married, it’s literally for life. But say you or the children ARE being abused, it doesn’t have to be physically either. Firstly, you are encouraged to separate and receive counseling, if you can do that safely. But if not, you are totally sopported and justified in procuring a civil divorce. No stigma. However you may not remarry. (Unless first spouse dies) . Now, call me crazy but i think thats reasonable AND biblical. Yes, it’s hard. But it’s doable.

    1. SarahS – Your insights here are good when it comes to seeing the errors that so many churches lay on victims. But in my opinion, the course you have chosen here is not one we would recommend to anyone. First, the Roman Catholic gospel is a distortion of the biblical gospel. Rome teaches salvation by faith plus works, something the Bible roundly rejects. Second, your description of Rome’s doctrine of marriage and annulment and so on does not sound like any improvement to me. You say that they don’t stigmatize you if you get a civil divorce, but in fact they lay the “you cannot remarry” card on you. No, I don’t agree that this is reasonable and biblical.

    2. Reasonable and biblical? I don’t think so, Sarah – not in my opinion anyway. You can remarry for dishonesty, but not because you were a victim of abuse or fornication? That is certainly not biblical. I agree with Jeff’s views here, and I stand by Christ and His view of reasons for divorce and remarriage.

19. I had another of Lou Priolo’s books on my bookshelf titled ‘Pleasing People’ and threw it in the garbage after reading this.

20. Barb commented:

    ….and bananas wrapped in foil with chocolate in their middles. While they are roasting, we can all be learning each others’ real names!

    I had forgotten about bananas and chocolate done in foil….and I’ve often wanted to place a face to a real name. Kinda like listening to someone on the radio and later on seeing their picture.

    Donttellmymom wrote:

    When I told my parents that I had been battling suicidal thoughts, they made me go to counseling with a leader from their church. He told me that suicide and thoughts of suicide were sins, and I needed to go to confession.

    I have had times in my life where suicidal thoughts were a significant part of my life. I kept silent. They were one aspect of clinical depression, but the clinical depression was caused by life circumstances, not medical issues.

    Not long ago, I started listening to a podcast by a well-know and well-respected “theologian”. He said his single response to someone thinking suicidal thoughts was to quote “Thou Shalt Not Kill.” I stopped listening.

    Christian or “C”hristian or secular, bald-faced statements like this demonstrate a true lack of empathy and understanding. I could present this “theologian” with a number of informative books, but I highly doubt he would take the time to read them.

    Lou Priolo quote:

    ….Your selfish discontentment is exaggerating your troubles in your mind….

    Ummmm. Taking this out of the context of “marriage”, I face this one everyday, without his “advice”.

    I keep thinking I am expecting too much when nothing seems to change. I know my perspective is skewed, but I’m just so, so tired of trying to climb out of the pit. And so, so desperate to change my image of God.

21. Priolo:

    Your selfish discontentment is exaggerating your troubles in your mind. The truth is, if you proceed with an unbiblical divorce, you will be the one putting the knife through the heart of God and yet another nail in the hand of your Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.

    My, my, my. Yet another man who claims women are exaggerating their troubles in their minds. UGH. And make no mistake, Priolo reeks of that misogyny that so many ‘C’hristian leaders / authors / counselors have. It is a sexist stronghold — how many sexist men say that?! ‘She’s exaggerating — her mind isn’t right’ (might as well throw in the good ol’ “hysterical” label, too).

    A knife through God’s heart and another nail in Jesus’ hand?! For not making an idol out of a non-marriage (as I contend, there is no such thing as a marriage with an abuser — they don’t marry, instead they con, dupe, entrap, and enslave the unsuspecting, innocent wife / target / victim).

    Time to shake the dust off one’s sandals, turn and walk away. Priolo is self-condemned. Perhaps he should be forced to be the live-in ‘partner’ of a violent, raging, criminal, contemptuous, controlling, abuser. Maybe when violence is inflicted on him, when he is being bent over and sodomized, when he is deprived of sleep, food, etc., terrorized, beaten unconscious, threatened with death….perhaps then we can see if he might reconsider those statements and beliefs of his, or remind him that he isn’t getting out and away from the abuser until he has been shot or stabbed….

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