My current view is that God can and sometimes does give abusers regeneration, but I think this occurs rarely.
Someone can profess to be a Christian but not be born again. That person may have what William Tyndale called Story Faith, but not have genuine faith. Go here to learn about Story Faith blindness.
Love Your Enemies — In this sermon, Keith Ford explains how churches misapply the love your enemies principle and how this causes grave injustice to victims of abuse. Keith sets out why an enemy cannot be a Christian. He argues that if an enemy calls himself a Christian, he ought to be put out of the church. The sermon distinguishes between persecution for righteousness sake which is done by those outside Christ who want to stifle and crush the gospel message, and enemy behaviour which is done by those who simply want to be disrespectful and cruel to others for their own selfish reasons.
Jimmy and Clara Hinton on How the Bible Describes Wolves:
Episode 204: How the Bible Describes Wolves (and It’s Not Nice) — Spreaker, from iHeart
Episode 204: How the Bible Describes Wolves (and It’s Not Nice) — YouTube
Post updated 2nd Sept 2024.
[July 12, 2024: Editors’ notes:
—For some comments made prior to July 12, 2024 that quoted from the post, the text in the comment that was quoted from the post might no longer be an exact match.
—For some comments made prior to July 12, 2024 that quoted from the post, the text in the comment that was quoted from the post might no longer be found in the post.
If you would like to compare the text in the comments made prior to July 12, 2024 that quoted from the post to the post as it is now (July 12, 2024), click here [Internet Archive link] for the most recent Internet Archive copy of the post.]
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In my opinion that verse sums up a lot of the confusion. This was an issue I wrestled with for some time. There is a school of thought that says we should not judge whether someone is a Christian, that this is God’s job alone. But I look at it like this example.
There is someone who comes to work and doesn’t bring lunch with them. You can tell they are hungry but they say they aren’t. They say they just didn’t feel like eating today. This goes on quite consistently. You see the person start to lose weight. At this point you can say it’s none of your business or you can probe further. So you ask a co-worker who also notices this as odd but doesn’t care to get involved further. You run into the lunch-less person’s relative at the grocery store so you probe. They mumble something about this person having some “struggles”. You probe further and find out that indeed this person is nearly in poverty and has no money to buy food. You go to the church and they take up a collection to present to this person who doesn’t accept it well at first but then does choose to accept it. With this money they were able to get ahead and make more money with what was left over. They, in turn, thrive.
Now, if we tell ourselves the salvation of the abuser is “not our business” then we are allowing the starved person to die of starvation. We have a responsibility to preach the good news to those who need to hear it. How do we know who needs to hear it? Is it a stretch to conclude that those who don’t seem to have it are the ones who need to hear it?
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Over the last few months, as I read and interact, I have embraced the truth that my ex was not a Christian. I hold it as a true fact, but can’t internalize it. Internalizing it is a process for me that I am welcoming, slowly.
Just now, as I complete two of these articles, a movie begins to play before me. I begin with our first meetings in youth group and the circumstances surrounding his prayer of confession to receive Christ as his Savior….carrying a little New Testament in his pocket to high school, starting a coffee house ministry with a friend, and continuing on to college to be a minister….
That was over [four decades] ago. [Number redacted] years ago, I divorced this man with the title Rev before his name. Please pray for me as I allow myself to watch this movie in truth. The lady in the picture is a Christian. The man in the movie is a son of Satan.
Then I have to grapple with the fact that while loving God, I spent the days of my life, not in fellowship, but sleeping with the Enemy.
Am I distorting the picture? Am I missing something?
It is sad that I ask you, the truthful ones, those 2 questions. I ask them because the abuser always answered those two questions with a “yes”, before the words were out of my mouth. Then he explained to me why MY perceptions of most everything were incorrect.
Can you help me a little, here?
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Hi, Seeing Clearly, I can only collaborate with you, but perhaps it will help.
My deceiver / partner distorted my perceptions all day long throughout our marriage because he wanted me to see things through his lenses, and only through his perspective….to continue his facade. He still tries to repaint the picture all the time even today….smoke and mirrors. To drag me back in. Most of the marriage, I was submissive, and allowed him to correct the spirit of truth within me that was always telling me something different. As he insisted I had defective perceptions.
One day while on a car ride with him, I was wondering out loud, and mentioned that I wondered “why someone said what they said”. He got very upset with me, because I was questioning the motive behind someone’s words, and told me instead I should just deal with “the result of their words, and not question the whys of what was said”….It confused me at the time, because I was seeking the truth, and he made me feel like I was doing something wrong in wanting to know why. But now I see that he was afraid I might start to question some of his words and he felt the threat of my growing yearning for truth.
The picture of truth was “distorted by your deceiver”, and you were once his trusting supporter, out of your honest intentions. But he breached your trust. As the truth of his intentions were revealed over time, you responded to it in self-preservation as anyone should.
Mine is still trying to get me to doubt myself and my convictions, but I am trusting Christ to keep me focused and content with my independence. He alone is the true Lover of our souls, for God is for us, and not against us.
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Thank you for your insight which I will re-read more times today. While I am feeling off balance, I will hold fast to your last words, God is for me. Thank you.
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Seeing Clearly, I very much relate to that! It was an awful realization to come to terms with. Sleeping with the enemy. Sharing the bed with him….sleep is our most vulnerable time, and I was sharing those sheets with an evil man whose heart was stony and whose mind was bent on concocting ways to hurt me and eventually also our daughter….
Abusers put a LOT of energy into trying to control and manipulate the perceptions of their targets. I don’t think you are distorting the picture at all. It sounds to me from what you wrote here and all your other comments on this blog like you had very very good reasons to divorce him. And you gave the marriage a good shot, before you eventually realized it was a hopeless task and would never work.
Abusers lie. They lie chronically. They lie convincingly, sprinkling in just enough truth so that people will be beguiled by their lies. They craft falsehoods with deftness and calculated cunning to make their targets (and bystanders) think that abuse is not going on. It is covert aggression at is worst. I don’t think you are making things up. I encourage you to continue to watch that movie and keep breathing and let yourself weep and / or be angry when the tears and / or anger come up. It is hard. (hugs)
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Thank you for your affirmations and hugs. I will continue to watch the movie and continue breathing. A few weeks ago, in unforeseen preparation for this time, God told me, “I AM the air you breath.” Six gentle, powerful words.
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Also Philippians 3:13-14 is also a good encourager for us, as the apostle Paul wrote.
I believe the reason that we were “targeted by our abusers” is because we have a pure testimony, that would draw many to Christ. Now that we are free again, or, getting free, we can do just that! Dangerous stuff we are — to the kingdom of darkness, now that we are no longer deceived.
This song may encourage you as it has me (skip the ad) because it gives the glory to Jesus. Big Daddy Weave — The Only Name (Yours Will Be)1 I think an abuser would not like this song because they seek to get what only belongs to God. Big Daddy Weave — Giving glory to the One in whom glory is due! Amen.
1[The original link to Big Daddy Weave — The Only Name (Yours Will Be) was broken. We replaced the original link to the video with a copy of Big Daddy Weave — The Only Name (Yours Will Be) that works. Editors.]
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I’ve been hesitant to post this because I’ve sort of been hoping someone else will come up with something similar, but so far I haven’t seen it so here goes.
I’m married to my second covert abuser….25 years the first time, 8 years single, now another 9 years to another. So about 5 years ago we went to a “Caring For The Heart” ministry for counseling. On about the third day the couple who was counseling us was praying for my h and suddenly he curled up in a fetal position and started talking and mumbling….two very different voices talking to each other. One I couldn’t understand and the other was saying, “NO! Go away!” with hand gestures as if shooing away something / someone. The husband counselor knelt by him and wrote down what he was saying and then they prayed for him for about 15 minutes and then all was “normal” again. Now this was just a normal counseling, nothing of this sort was expected.
Then months later there were a few times when we would try to pray together (he avoids doing that but sometimes will) and he (hubby) said he “just wasn’t getting anywhere”, that “all he was hearing was evil laughter and voices saying, “I won’t let you go. You’re mine.””
I’m wondering if anyone else has seen this sort of thing or has thoughts about what to do. My son recently recommended the book “Healing the Family Tree” by Dr. Kenneth McAll, written in 1956 by a doctor / psychologist / missionary, which talks about this so I wonder if God is directing [me] here.
[Paragraph breaks added to enhance readability. Editors.]
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Sunflower, thank you SOOOOO much for posting this. I think we will make it into a stand-alone post as it is an important topic. I am busy with family stuff right now but will reply a bit more on this thread to you later, I hope. If I don’t reply on this thread, I will certainly comment on it when we publish the stand-alone post.
Bless you!
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I am a Christian, yet have been an abuser after coming to Christ. I got saved by Christ in a mighty way. I surrendered my heart to Him and was changed by His word, church and have seen many prayers answered. Before coming to Christ, I was an emotional and physical abuser. When I got saved and gave my life to Jesus, it had been a long time before I had an angry outburst with anyone — then I got married to a wonderful Bible-believing woman and my abusive tendencies showed its ugly face. It was a downward spiral of a hole I couldn’t get out of. I let pride and denial get in my way, my fear to let go of my ministry to take care of my issues and to love my wife the way Christ loved the church didn’t happen. I abused my wife and she rightfully left.
Does this mean I was never a Christian to begin with? Of course not. It was an issue I thought was left behind me after my salvation conversion, but after much study it is rooted in my habits and choices in thinking. I am praying, learning, and trying to create healthy habits to not impulsively blow up or abuse anyone ever again but it is rather difficult. The Lord has been revealing to me the fear I hold in me in my every-day life, and the childhood trauma I went through that triggers me.
In hindsight, there were red flags in the courting stage before my marriage that if I were looking for them, could’ve revealed I still struggled with these abusive tendencies. None of this means I wasn’t serving the Lord out of a genuine heart.
I have been reading through your pages and a lot of it is insightful and helpful, but the rest are shaming and follow the secular mindset that a person can’t do horrible things and be called a follower of God. I hate the things I did, and want to change, but I know I was a Christian in this time period of abuse. The Lord chastens whom He loves, and He had chastened me by taking away everything to get my attention that I in fact, am not “cured”, but rather will be in recovery for the rest of my life. A reality I didn’t want to face, but it is my “cross” to bear if I want to truly follow Jesus.
This site is helpful for victims, but it is very much so misleading to say a Christian cannot sin after getting saved. There are no works in salvation, only belief. The change comes later. We still have a flesh we must battle.
The Corinthian church is a good example that those who are Christians can do horrible horrible acts (the man committing fornication with his mother-in-law was in fact saved) but be restored after repentance (the very same man is mentioned in Paul’s later epistles being restored, never losing salvation).
Please don’t take this as I am justifying or minimizing my actions. What I did was horrible, but it was not what I wanted to happen. Posts like these and the mantra “once an abuser always an abuser” were fearful ideologies that played a small part in why I didn’t seek help years ago. I used to think before coming to Christ: “Well if they’re saying I can’t change and should be put on an island somewhere far away from society then I better not admit what I’m doing and just try again in another relationship”. Other men have said the same. Our actions should be shamed, but in God’s eyes we are more than our actions, which is why salvation is based on a faith in Jesus’s actions. When you shame the person’s core, and soul, and state that they cannot be a Christian and sin, you are pushing away other former abusers like me who actually want to change and stop destroying the lives of innocent woman.
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Hi, Joseph, thanks for your comment. I added some paragraph breaks to it for readability, I hope you don’t mind.
This site used to be co-led by Ps Jeff Crippen and me (Barbara Roberts). In 2017 Jeff resigned which resulted in me being the sole leader of the site. I no longer agree with all that Jeff Crippen wrote on this site, but I have not had the mental or emotional energy to add caveats to the things Jeff wrote which I no longer agree with.
Jeff used to say “Once an abuser, always an abuser”. By and large, it does seem to be the case that abusers do not change, but I have heard of a small number of cases where men who have abused their female intimate partners do embark on and stick at the life-long task of reforming their mindset and attitudes. From what you wrote in your comment, you sound like one of those men. In the accounts I’ve heard, most of those men were not able to retain the relationship with the woman they abused. The woman chose never to reconcile with the man who had abused her. I’m telling you this in the hope that you will feel less alone.
I have complex PTSD from the various abuses I’ve suffered, including being bullied and publicly slandered by Jeff Crippen a year after he resigned from this site. I’m not saying that to excuse my slackness, but it’s an explanation which I hope you will look kindly on. I have now come to believe that Jeff Crippen was and still is a wolf in shepherd’s clothing (see here).
Up until now, my policy has been never to scrub posts that were published on this site, even if I no longer fully agree with what was said in the post. The reason I haven’t scrubbed posts is that, if I scrub a post, the comments on that post will also disappear. Many readers have said they greatly benefited from reading other readers’ comments. And I have always tried to prioritise the voices and viewpoints of victims. As you can appreciate, it is much more work to write a careful caveat on an old post, and at the same time write a new post announcing how and why I’ve added the caveat to the old post(s), compared to the relatively simple task of scrubbing an old post.
I am also open to the idea that some men who abuse their intimate female partners have suffered trauma and if that trauma is unhealed the man might be triggered and behave badly. I agree with you that having trauma in one’s past, and being triggered, is no excuse for bad behaviour.
I think you would agree with me that if an abuser uses his past traumatic experiences as an excuse or justification for his bad behaviour, or as a “pity plea” to manipulate other people that is wrong.
Again, thank you for your comment. And I’m glad you have found some of this site helpful.
You mentioned shame. I would really like to hear your thoughts on this post I wrote recently: Facing, digesting and metabolising the feeling of shame — A deep dive into the parable of the unrighteous steward.
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Barb,
You wrote (5th July 2024):
And you wrote:
And you wrote:
I, for one, have benefitted greatly from ALL the posts and comments on the ACFJ blog — even those by Jeff Crippen that were badly written, that shamed people, and / or could be hurtful. And in some cases, I’ve taken the liberty of adding a comment to one of Jeff Crippen’s posts (or comments) when I think he’s gone too far.
I’ve yet to read (versus skim 😊) ALL the posts and comments on the ACFJ blog….but I’m working on it. 😊
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