When I’m listening to a person who is complaining about their spouse or their marriage, I want to discern whether they are a victim or a perpetrator. Does this mean I am suspicious of all disclosures of abuse? Yes; and no. In most cases, the person’s words (and body language, if I’m able to see it) tell me very quickly, almost immediately, that I’m hearing from a genuine victim. But there are some cases where that recognition and confidence does not come so easily. In such cases, I believe it’s right to honour to my feelings of uncertainty and be consciously suspicious. After all, we talk a lot on this blog about how perpetrators pose as victims in order to recruit allies and supporters. Jeff S recently said (in another thread) that the central question he would ask himself in this situation is is “does this person sound like he or she feels entitled?”
It’s an excellent question. I think we can use that question as a sea anchor when we are in these kinds of conversations. (A sea anchor is a device used to stabilize a boat in heavy weather. Rather than tethering the boat to the seabed, the sea anchor increases the drag through the water and thus acts as a brake.)
“Does this person seem to feel unjustifiably entitled?” is the basic question I’m asking myself when I’m listening to a person who is complaining about their spouse or their marriage. The word “unjustifiably” is important in that question, because survivors of abuse may so yearn for justice that they can come across as if they feel ‘entitled’ to justice. But victims of abuse are justified in yearning for justice – it’s not wrong for them to feel that way.
Side note: When I was in early recovery from my first husband’s abuse and the ensuing abuse from the church, I saw a counselor who, to my face, seemed to totally support and validate me. Later, when applying for crimes compensation, I asked that counselor to write a report for the court about how I’d suffered psychologically as a consequence of my husband’s actions. Her report was scathing: she described me as motivated by vindictiveness! I am convinced that she made that judgement because I talked quite a lot to her about how the church had mistreated me after I separated from my husband. I think she interpreted my feelings of outrage as vindictiveness. It was devastating when I read her report. I told the Victims’ Assistance Program staff that this counselor had maligned me unfairly, and they made a note not to refer clients to her again. But God, in His marvelous way, is now using that experience of mine to make me underline how important it is to ask “Does this person feel unjustifiably entitled to a certain treatment?” – because there is all the difference in the world between justified entitlement and unjustified entitlement.
To ascertain whether the person’s feelings are justified or whether they are due to hardness of heart and overweening entitlement, I need to listen to the person’s story and keep my antennae alert for various markers.
What do I look for when I’m trying to discern whether a person’s account of their marriage problem is genuine?
Remember when you did essays in high school or college? One of the typical questions was “Compare and contrast ________”. I’m going to be comparing and contrasting the different styles of speech used by genuine victims versus perpetrators posing as victims. I’m writing from my own knowledge and experience but I have learned that the things I’ve gleaned off my own bat are confirmed by professionals who work in the field of family violence. I learned this when I went to a workshop called Assessing men who present as victims of family violence but who may actually be the primary aggressor which was presented by Nathan DeGuara, Victims Support Agency, Department of Justice Victoria, at the No To Violence conference in Melbourne last year.
There are many markers I look for and I think it would do the subject a disservice if I tried to squash them all into one post. (Update: I intended this post to be the first in a series, but unfortunately I’ve not had time to write more in the series yet.)
Vagueness and contradictions
If I discern vagueness or contradictions in the person’s story, I ask them to clarify. Usually in their clarification I can start to tell whether they are being deliberately (evasively) vague or whether their vagueness comes from something like PTSD, or can simply be explained by the fact that they haven’t told this story to many people who really want to listen, so they may be gushing and stumbling over themselves because the top has just come off the pressure cooker.
Note: I also keep in the back of my mind the possibility that their vagueness may come from an underlying condition not directly related to abuse perpetration or victimization — things like acquired brain injury, early dementia, genetic disorders affecting cognition, disorders that can impair memory such as clinical depression, disorders that may impair the person’s grasp of reality such as schizophrenia — and that list would not be exhaustive. I’m only speaking personally and I’m not a clinician, but in my experience, these “other” reasons for vagueness seem to be less common than PTSD or abuse perpetration.
A person whose story contains contradictions can be pressed to find out if they are simple errors and skips in accuracy while recounting the story, or whether they are actual deceit because the story was fabricated or air-brushed to begin with. You can point out the contradiction in what a person is saying quite politely, and ask them to comment. With a true victim, they will usually give you a much longer back-story, and then their whole account makes sense and it no longer seems like there is a contradiction. But when you press a perpetrator who is posing as a victim, they tend not to give you a long and more coherent back-story, rather, they sweep off into deflection, blocking, red herrings, etc. When I try to press a phoney victim to explain the contradictions that they have uttered and they avoid making a sound explanation, I often have the gut feeling that I’m being bullied. There is the sense that the other person is trying to control the direction of the conversation and is discounting my reasonable questions.
[July 8, 2022: Editors’ notes:
—For some comments made prior to July 8, 2022 that quoted from the post, the text in the comment that was quoted from the post might no longer be an exact match.
—For some comments made prior to July 8, 2022 that quoted from the post, the text in the comment that was quoted from the post might no longer be found in the post.
If you would like to compare the text in the comments made prior to July 8, 2022 that quoted from the post to the post as it is now (July 8, 2022), click here [Internet Archive link] for the most recent Internet Archive copy of the post.]
***
Further Reading
How to spot an abuser who claims to be a victim
Marks of a pretend victim versus a true victim
How easy is it to spot an abuser when he is both Jekyll and Hyde
A Cry For Justice 
Very telling….that you leave the conversation feeling bullied! So true! Of course it takes me a while to figure out why I feel upset or what didn’t feel right.
I feel so down and came across this years later. My ex is a name-person and works with children now. He is very charismatic and his behavior when angry is what led me to the hospital. My sadness is brought out more by the fact he is smarter than me and has made the situation look different during the attack while I could barely get my wits about me after he attacked me in the vehicle. He was staging things, yelling “she’s crazy.” I just couldn’t move much to get out. I relate to you in knowing how hard it can be for people to believe their friend is an a***** who hurts you. I’m not like that, I always believe people can have a nasty side and the rest can easily be public fiction. I’ve seen it and lived it. I’m in therapy now and he’s still an a*****….something I had to accept.
Welcome to our little blog, dear friend. I believe you. I hope you stick around and keep commenting as you wish.
I like your screen name — No Justice — that is what victims of intimate partner abuse often experience in this temporal world.
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This was so true for me. It seemed like my ex desperately needed to feel validated and the one wronged — he even convinced ME that he had been the victim in our relationship (for the length of it, and for a few months afterwards)…. He also got all of our friends in the breakup for the same reason. That was the worst part, knowing that other people “knew” that he was the victim, and I could do nothing to correct that, even though they made my life very difficult after that.
Hi, Forgedimagination, welcome to the blog. 🙂
George Simon talks a lot about how abusers work hard to portray themselves as the ones who have been wronged. So if you haven’t yet read Simon’s books, I encourage you to check them out (see our Resources page).
May I suggest to you a slight rephrasing of your comment? Instead of saying —
Try this way of putting it:
In other words, he doesn’t so much “need to feel validated” as the victim — as if his fragile ego would collapse if he did not get that “need” met; rather, he chooses to create a lie by portraying himself as the victim in order to resist taking responsibility for his immoral behaviour and deficient character.
Bingo, Barbara, and thank you. That has been my experience as well and I have had to learn to rephrase things to be more in keeping with the truth. We are so often the last to see what was happening and why we respond as we do, often appearing as a crazy person.
I’m looking forward to reading more.
Excellent rephrasing, Barb. Thank you. This helps me, as well. I truly believed that my ex’s ego would crumble if I didn’t constantly pour water down the rathole. And….now….well, it seems he is doing just fine. What a release. An angering release (I wasted years and energy on his ego) — but a release nonetheless.
I too find this helpful. In the situation I knew, the victim was forever taking responsibility; being tenderhearted, responsible, and empathetic by nature, while the abuser was forever forgoing responsibility so he could look good and win.
Barbara,
That is so cool the way you rephrased that! When I first read the original, I thought, well, yeah, I know some people like that….but after reading how you worded it — that is the truth! The abuser plays the game to get sympathy and remain in control so he / she can continue with their power game over others. Thanks for that — so helpful.
Barbara, I love this sentence.
One of the things I’m learning from you in particular, is to listen to that feeling in my gut. I’ve spent years suppressing my instincts. As Christians, we’re told over and over again not to be ruled by our emotions but I feel the flip-side of this (at least for me) has been ignoring my instincts. Or, if I follow my instincts, I obsessively second-guess myself afterward wondering if I did the right thing.
I have been very susceptible to the notion that we must suppress our feelings. I don’t naturally trust my feelings anyway — I’m more of a logical analyst. My parents and religious instruction led me to believe that this was the correct way to live. I ignored all of my instincts and feelings and operated on my logic ALONE.
I can see now what an awful disaster this has been for my life. While it has served me well in my education / work, it has brought me destruction when dealing with other people & relationships.
I am actively trying to train myself to listen to my feelings now — it’s very very hard. I am trying to notice when I feel anxious and unsettled and sick inside….and try to figure out why. I had a conversation with a man who came into my place of work one time — he was a total stranger and logically I had no reason to feel afraid — but all of the hair on my neck stood up and my arms broke out in gooseflesh — and I had this overwhelming feeling [to] not to stand too close to him.
I felt like I must be going nuts — but now I think….”hmm maybe that guy was dangerous.”
Katy, read Gavin de Becker’s book The Gift Of Fear [Affiliate link]. It is about this very thing that you felt from that guy.
This has been one of those “ah-ha” moments for me lately. I, too, have never trusted my emotions but simply because I’ve been told my entire life by all of my abusers (my family of origin and then my husband) that I’m overly sensitive and read into things too much. So, consequently, I don’t trust my “overly sensitive nature” and feel that I always need to run everything past someone else (because naturally “everyone else has been gifted with better insight than I” — said tongue in cheek).
I recently have been through an awful experience with one son and a teacher of his. I have felt terrible, terrible anxiety all school year but just assumed it is my own PTSD, my own messed up emotions. Then, BAM! I found out that I had reason to be filled with anxiety! At nearly the same time this “discovery” was made I went through an awful experience with an old “friend”. I felt like I was “losing it” throughout January; my anxiety level and PTSD symptoms were off the charts again. Then, BAM! I found out that I had reason to be filled with anxiety! All of these relationships were toxic and potentially legally dangerous with very underhanded and vindictive things going on behind my back, and somehow something deep inside of me recognized it though my conscious mind was not aware of it. I’m learning that gut feeling of being bullied and the ensuing anxiety NEED to be heeded.
Thanks so much, Barb, for another insightful post!
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I also do not trust my emotions, though I am trying to learn to.
I think that emotions get a bad rap in evangelical circles because it is an over-reaction against the “experience-driven” religious thrust that has been prevalent throughout the last century. People come to all kinds of crazy thoughts and teachings through experience and experience becomes the highest truth. The problem is that our perceptions of experiences is never perfect and we can easily be betrayed. So the call is to return to the Word of God as the sole authority of truth and leave experience and emotions out of it.
I think, though, that this is wrong – Scripture says that God uses experience as a teacher. Obviously we must not pit our experience against the Scriptures, but that does not mean experience (and emotions, which are related because they are internal to us) has no value.
It’s this kind of thinking that allows us to redefine “love” in a way that is not loving, because we don’t let emotions come into it. If you FEEL something is unloving, well those are just feelings.
This is the way my mind works, and it’s a lot of work to un-train it. I want to think critically, but I also want to be the full person God created me to be – including the person “below the neck”. It will be a long time before I trust someone who tells me that something that feels wrong is right.
Hi, Just Me, you have nailed it by saying that we have been told to ignore our emotions, which in fact is another way of saying ignore your heart, because the heart is the seat of the emotions and is also where Jesus comes to live. So therefore if we are told to ignore our emotions, our hearts then could it be said that we are being told to ignore Jesus? I have always disagreed with not feeling as a Christian because Jesus in the Bible I have read was a very compassionate, feeling man. He cried, He laughed, He got angry, He was happy. Without feelings how are we supposed to protect ourselves from things that can harm us?
I have just read a really good book on “The Heart Revolution” by Phil Mason, which explains some of the history behind the intellectualization of the Gospel, [as] opposed to teaching the heart of the Gospel.
Reblogged this on Speakingtruthinlove's Blog [Internet Archive link].
Just Me, I don’t know how that injunction not to be ruled by emotion gained such huge popularity in Christendom, but like you, I have come to realize that it has been misleading. Listening to your gut is hardly equivalent to being “ruled by emotion”. Rather, it is living the way God has designed us as human beings to live, with awareness of our internal reactions.
Of course, as Christians we don’t want to be ruled by how we feel, but I think Christian “experts” who make a big deal of that are missing the point. It’s important to acknowledge what we feel, because if we don’t, it gets repressed and since the body doesn’t lie, it will come back to haunt us in some way or other. Acknowledging isn’t the same as being wildly ruled by it, as if we had no control of our choices.
I think it’s great you are training yourself to follow your instincts. I found that hard to do when I was just coming out of the fog, more-so because the abuser was still around and kept implying that my gut was unreliable and intended to keep me second-guessing. I think the second-guessing is also a kind of post-traumatic reaction which fades in time as we practise healthy re-training of our thought processes.
It’s helped me tremendously that my counselors / advocates confess that they often make mistakes, and that it’s no big sin to do so. We’re allowed to make mistakes, and that takes away the obsessive “what if I’ve done the wrong thing?” thoughts. Even if we make mistakes, we know that we did ONE thing right – recognizing abuse / evil and disassociating ourselves from it. And for that, we should be hugely congratulated, not made to doubt our capacity to make right judgements.
Barbara, care to send a copy of this series to judges, evaluators, psych / forensic experts, counselors, pastors, school principals, etc.? Oh, and throw in every bystander on the face of this earth.
It makes me shudder to think that the reason why the average person wouldn’t identify contradictions / vagueness is that we probably come across these so frequently we get used to them. Now looking back, I certainly have encountered my fair share of such vague stories of victimizations in Bible study groups. Ditto for “unjustified entitlement” — in today’s society, there seems to be more and more unjustified entitlement, and the average person almost has to pause to reflect as to what constitutes justified entitlement. I have heard older women chide their daughters for not accepting their husband’s mistreatment because “men need to be looked after”, “all men sleep around, just be grateful he brings home the bacon”, “do the right thing and he won’t complain”. These women believed that the men’s entitlement was justified, and joined in the men’s indignance at not having their “needs” met.
Absolutely spot on, Barb. I fully agree with you and am so glad you’re addressing this issue, as it’s so prevalent, especially in the church today where the mindset [is] often geared toward believing the passionate statements of the abuser’s manipulative, lying and blame shifting to gain pity and create doubt. Sadly, most church leadership wants to believe the manipulative claims to ‘healing’ and ‘poor me, ‘I tried and I was the one abused’ because it’s easier, and quite frankly – the good old boys club covers for each other to preserve the name of the institution. I know there are those men here who have been victims themselves, so I’m not lumping you into that category.
I love this from Just Me:
Yes, this has been true for me as well. It’s form of oppression while silencing the victim, false Biblical teaching: all, I believe to hide what else is going on in the church and in order to preserve institutional face. Thank you, Barb.
Question, is there a way to post this discussion, or any discussion on Facebook as a link?
I will put a link to this post on our http://www.facebook.com/pages/A-Cry-for-Justice/196307250499415?ref=hl Facebook page right now. [December 28, 2022: This A Cry For Justice Facebook page link is broken and we were unable to find a replacement in the Internet Archive. Editors.]
But anyone can post a link to anywhere they write at FB. All you have to do is click on the title of the post, which makes the URL in your browser into the URL that for the post. Copy that URL. Then go to FB and paste the URL that you just copied onto wherever you want to write it on FB. In a few seconds you will see that FB has automatically converted the URL into an active link to the post, complete with thumbnail image, the title of the post, and the first few lines from the post body text. (Magic!)
Advanced hint: If you want to share on FB a particular comment within the post thread, first click on the date under the commenter’s name. That will change the URL to a URL that leads to that exact comment. Then paste it into FB.
Maybe that advanced hint doesn’t work with this blog. I know I’ve done it on other blogs, but it might not work for this one. Some other reader may have a tip about this.
Oh, this is awesome, Barbara! I am so glad you clarified this. I was so relieved after I talked to Jeff S about this in one of the earlier posts. My husband believes he is the victim in the family, and he has many times accused me of trying to control him. I really did believe I was abusive to him….and in some ways I am. I am no longer intimate with him, we are not friends anymore, I am utterly cold and distant with him, and I am getting very firm about maintaining my boundaries, safeguarding my children and I, and not allowing him (or anyone else) to take advantage of me or cast doubt in me by undermining my confidence in my reality or decision-making capacities.
After talking through the guilt I was carrying over this with Jeff S, I realized that while I could (and should) be more respectful in the way I carry myself (but I am also learning in counseling to also to be more gentle and understanding with myself), my actions are not controlling or abusive; I am gaining my own identity and developing boundaries. The problem is that for so long my identity was enmeshed with his, and I had no boundaries at all, so now any attempt on my part to assert myself or establish clear boundaries for myself and my kids is met with fear and hostility. My husband sees this as a direct affront to him because he believes, quite genuinely, that he is ENTITLED to dictate everything to everyone else in my home.
And the other thing is, I am also becoming very deliberate about establishing and maintaining an equal relationship between the two of us. I no longer tolerate him leaving me to do everything and then disregarding my legitimate complaints by telling me that the problem is all in my head, or that if I don’t want to do it all I should just not do it. That attitude got us kicked out of our home before, and I will not allow him to do that to us again. So yes, I do control him to some degree now. When he refuses to fix things I threaten to call someone from the church to do it. I know that will embarrass him. When he lounges on the couch while I am doing all the work, picking up after him even, I nag him to get up and help me because I no longer take for granted that I should be the one to do all the housework in the home.
I suppose now I do feel entitled, not only to justice, but to common courtesy and respect. And I feel that it is not a loving thing to accept that he is not capable of treating me with respect and dignity. Not to him, and not to my children who are also now walking all over me and treating me like a maid.
There is the vulnerability there for me to [go] a little overboard. I think that the pendulum might swing back and forth to either extreme for a while until it gradually loses momentum, if that makes any sense. And I also rant and rave about how the church mishandled the abuse. I felt utterly abandoned by my faith community who I respected very highly. They really hurt me deeply and still can’t see how. Perhaps it wasn’t intentional on the part of all the clergy (and their wives) involved, but they had me thinking I couldn’t trust myself or my own reality, I was sinful for seeking help because I was not focusing on my own sin, and then that God expected me to throw the “problem child” out of my home to alleviate some of the burden. They blamed my son for his own abuse. Now my son resents the whole church and wants nothing to do with this God who wouldn’t protect him. How can I not be angry? This is my child’s eternity at stake!
I was also thrown into a dark pit in terms of my relationship with God and my identity before Him. I didn’t even seek outside help (and no one ever counseled me to) until I had reached the point that I was sitting in the bathtub with a bottle of epilepsy pills, ready to end my life because I felt hopeless to do anything about the situation and my children (who I loved more than anything else in this world) were getting screwed up.
Throughout this whole ordeal, I became very disoriented and still need to process everything, heal, and work through it — though I have made much progress. I can see how this might be construed as vindictiveness, but I know that it is far from it. I am not vindictive in the least bit to my husband. In fact, I still feel sorry for him and struggle with myself to justify my lack of responsiveness to him. Since he is abusive to my son and not me directly, and because he can so easily switch from a cruel monster of a father to my son, and then a loving, affectionate, and charming husband to me, as if he hasn’t done anything wrong at all, I often feel unjustified (and abusive) in my indifference to him. But then I think of the things I have read here, and talk logic to myself.
Anyway — and this was actually what I wanted to say before I “went off” there — this is a very important topic, Barbara, and I am so so so glad you are talking about it.
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Desley, it sounds like you are talking lots of sense to yourself. Keep it up!
Also, a book you might find helpful in your situation is Patricia Evans’ The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change? A Woman’s Guide to Deciding Whether to Stay or Go. I have not read it thoroughly yet myself, but I’ve skimmed it and it looks like it would be helpful to anyone who is living with someone who is verbally abusive.
I also think [the] teaching “we should not be ruled by our emotions” needs caution and CLARITY. Our emotions are the voice of our spirits. What we deem “negative” or “illegitimate” emotions can actually be our spirit showing us red flags, warning us that there is danger that needs to be addressed.
Trusting my “gut” is good and Godly. Jesus said —
I have learned not to ignore my knee-jerk reactions. My intuitive nature helps me stop pretending that evil and evil people will just disappear on their own. There often is some ACTION I need to take in protecting and guarding my heart.
(It is amazing that the medical community has discovered that we have two brains. Our brain and this small brain-like mass in our stomachs are inter-connected. 95% of the serotonin we have is produced in the bowels. This gives a whole new meaning to understanding the Psalms, especially, that expresses this very thought of the depth of our connection to God, as being, in our “kidneys or bowels”. It is actually quite inspiring to know the Lord is aware of those deepest parts of us and communicates to us through this. “Out of our bellies”, has a whole new meaning! We can sense and pick up on things that can be overlooked by our minds. This little brain does not have conscious thoughts not is it used in any decision making but it can give one the “heads up” in the arena of their emotions!!)
Trusting one’s emotions does NOT mean we ACCOMMODATE carnal feelings. We need to learn how to discern between the two. Being AWARE of emotions that are given to us purposefully by our Creator is using wisdom.
[…] Barb Roberts’ post The language of abusers who portray themselves as victims — Pt 1: Vagueness & Contraditions. […]
I appreciated these posts immensely. I was a victim of abuse for more than two decades.
I called the police on one occasion, and lied to them when they got there so that he [abuser] wouldn’t go to jail.
When he knew for sure that our marriage was over, he locked me out of my home, filed a restraining order, and claimed to be a victim of abuse. I was tricked into violating the order, and foolishly I did and was arrested. On that police report, his interview with the district attorney, and on various motions and comments to mediators, it is so obvious he is lying. One of the things I have found as I am making my way through the realization of this nightmare, is that true victims are able to recall one or maybe more particular account of the abuse, and for reasons surrounding that account, it sticks out as a pivotal event for them. Something changed. Realization, finally leaving, humiliation, what it is the account is clear, and stays the same story.
In the case of my ex-husband’s interview with the DA, he is asked if he abused the children. He at first says “no”, then he says “well, mental abuse”. But he isn’t asked about one single event that stands out to him, the degree of mental abuse, or any other details. He is also asked if I abused him. He says “yes”, and then the DA asks if he can explain what he means by abuse. He says that he “had to hold me down when I was angry, and I would kick and scream”. He also says that I “would hit him when he would try to stop me from leaving.” This goes along with my same story all along. That I was trapped, my vehicle disabled, locked out of bank accounts, and when I tried to leave he would grab me and pin me against the wall or on top of me on the floor, or behind me, and then slap me in the face and cover my mouth so hard that I couldn’t breath, telling me to stop crying over and over while holding me down and then getting off of me when I had stopped. I told this story before reading his interview with the DA, and yes I was very much in a daze of confusion. I knew my leaving would shatter him and I wanted to be as elusive as possible. I didn’t want to be overly cruel. I just wanted out. He on the other hand spoke horribly of me and did things a true victim would never do to the abuser. Victims lay low. They don’t take the stage holding the victim torch right away.
Well I lost my children due to a [multi-]year restraining order that was part of a plea for the violation of going to the house. There was nothing in writing and during my plea hearing the restraining order seemed to be thrown in there. I did not know it included my children, and at that time, I was still a child as far as trust in authority and the system goes. I have never had a trial to prove whether or not I am an abuser, or even an evidentiary hearing. There is not one single witness, police report, or account from my children at [several] mediations, to indicate any kind of violent behavior or mental abuse, yet I have been stamped and labeled “a domestic abuser”.
I have been prosecuted relentlessly for the most tedious violations, [details redacted]. Because of this I now have a long-term RO [details redacted]. There are so many addendums to the restraining order now that I have had to move from my community. I got nothing from more than two decades of marriage. I lost my children, my home, and an entire past that cannot be visited because of a restraining order. I pay child support and spousal support is well below guideline. I am starting out again, middle-aged, with far less than I came into my marriage with all those years ago, and a criminal record. Making a new life, all the while grieving the unimaginable loss of my children, and dealing with the overwhelming stress and obligation of my criminal case. Why? Because he was believed when simple training could have put up some red flags, and the DA may have never pushed for the [multi-]year CPO.
Anyway, I really appreciated this. Thank you.
Hi, dear sister, I changed your screen name to SystemicAbuseSurvivor. This blog is public and we want to help you keep safe; it’s not a good idea to use your real name unless you are really really safe already. I also redacted and airbrushed some of the details in your comment. Please read your comment above and see how I’ve done it. 🙂
Welcome to the blog! 🙂 We always like to encourage new readers to check out our New Users’ Info page as it gives tips for how to guard your safety while commenting on the blog.
If you want us to change your screen name to something else, or if you want us to edit your comment even more, just email twbtc.acfj@gmail.com
This literally just happened to me. He claimed to be the victim, he claimed that I mentally abused him. He wanted me to validate his achievements for [having a better job than me, having more education than I do].
[This comment was edited by the blog moderator to protect the anonymity of the commenter.]
Is there a part 2 to this post? Very grounding and supportive. I’m currently going through this and trying desperately to not be labeled as an abuser after years of feeling like I’m clinging to a life raft. The crying is non-stop, the questions in my head are non-stop, and the most painful thought is that maybe he was right and I deserve this.
Hi, Jill,
No I have not written a Part 2 to that post. Sorry. Those who know me well will have noticed that I sometimes have good intentions that I don’t follow through. 😦
However, I think you will find these links helpful:
My abuser says I am the abuser!
Defining domestic abuse by a list of behaviors is never going to capture it
Does the victim recognize the abusive patterns? Yes, and no. And then, by degrees, YES!
You are not to blame. The tears are part of the grieving. It is not your fault. ((hugs)) to you.
And welcome to the blog, Jill, since this looks like your first comment.
We like to encourage new readers to check out our New Users’ Info page as it gives tips for how to guard your safety while commenting on the blog.
And after reading the New Users’ Info page, I suggest you look at our FAQ page.
Is the behavior of someone pretending to be a victim able to be seen in other ways? Like behaviors?
For example if someone who is an alleged abuse victim, that went and got a restraining order on their alleged abuser, is driving slowly by their alleged abuser’s home multiple times and trying to engage their alleged abuser, does this mean something about their claim of being a victim?
Also this person — before the restraining order — has harassed their alleged abuser at work, has harassed them through social media, and will reach out to friends and family of their alleged abuser in the times they have been separated to try and get to their alleged abuser and get back in the relationship.
I have more questions but I will wait to see if these get a response on a post so old. Thank you for writing all this though, I’ve found it very insightful.
The examples you gave all indicate that the person is an abuser, not a victim. I will reply more tomorrow (it’s 11 p.m. where I am in Melbourne). But in the meantime I want to say welcome to the blog. 🙂
Researching For A Friend – if you click on the three links at the bottom of this post, I think you will find they answer your questions a bit more.
Can you explain what role PTSD has in someone acting abusive but thinking they are the victim???? Please?
Hi, Confused, you’ve asked a good question. Welcome to the blog! 🙂
If a person actually does have PTSD, that does not excuse that person behaving abusively to others. Some abusers claim to suffer from PTSD as a result of having been abused in the past; they then use that claim to partially or fully ‘justify’ their own abusive conduct.
Here is a post which discusses this topic a bit. The post does not actually use the term PTSD, but it differentiates between projection (an unconscious defence mechanism) and lying (which is an offensive tactic that is conscious and intentional):
Projection — a misuderstood and misapplied term
Some people have an acquired brain injury (ABI). An ABI can cause a person to have a short fuse and to not be able to readily think through the consequences of acting on their impulses.
Some abusers have ABIs as well as being abusers.
Some victims have ABIs as well as being victims.
Quite often the victim’s ABI is cause by head injuries inflicted by the abuser.
The whole topic of ABIs is complicated! I am by no means an expert on the role of ABIs in domestic abuse, but I know that field is being studied by professionals.
You will probably have heard the saying:
Here is a post about how the misuse of power may lead to brain damage:
Power impairs the neural process of mirroring which leads to hubris & lack of empathy.
Both of the posts I’ve linked to are fairly ‘in depth’. So if they don’t help you, or if you need further clarification, please comment in reply. Thanks!
In my experience and observation, it is very common for abusers to pretend to believe that they are victims, whereas in reality they are abusers, and the person or persons they are targeting are the victims.
This is not so much a comment, but a question.
Will a passive narcissist become violently angry and attack you physically and try to force you or rape you and then harass you and think they did nothing wrong? This has happened to me — he has called me names and doesn’t understand what he did wrong and says that I deserved what he did. All because I stood up and he lost control of me. He choked me soo many times that I lost consciousness and started having seizures and I have a bleeding on my front lobe in my brain then he called 911 and hung up and when they called back he said that he butt-dialed on accident then left me after he raped me when he was choking me….would a passive narcissist [be] capable of doing that?
Dear sister, some passive narcissists would be capable of doing that. This man who is abusing you is a malignant narcissist who has demonstrated that he is capable of extreme violence — life threatening violence and sexual violence — AND he is doing what all malignant narcissists do which is LIE by claiming that he did nothing wrong.
These men KNOW they have done wrong. They CHOOSE to do wrong. Then they CHOOSE TO LIE by saying they have done no wrong….or by claiming they don’t remember doing those things. These men are habitual liars, well-practised in their lying and deception. They put the blame on their victim and on anyone else except themselves. They refuse to take responsibility for their evil behaviour.
These men select a woman to target, then they surreptitiously invade the woman’s mind so she does not realise she is being abused until the abuse has become really ghastly (pervasive) and her health is so badly affected that it is hard for her to escape. For more about how these men select and target women to abuse, you can read my series on Don Hennessy.
I am very sorry for what you have suffered and are still suffering.
I hope you are receiving ongoing medical support and treatment for the bleed on your brain. I hope you are receiving support from domestic violence professionals (police, a shelter for DV victims, a Women’s Centre that specialises in supporting domestic violence victims).
This man could easily have killed you when he strangled you.
Only doctors and health professionals can give you a prognosis for your likelihood of long-term brain injury. I know this is awful news, but I want to encourage you to keep seeking and receiving treatment from health professionals who specialise in brain injury. The earlier they treat the condition, the more likely it is that you will be able to recover from the bleed on your brain.
A woman who survives one strangulation event is 700% more likely to be strangled again and 800% more likely to be killed later.
I think you will find this post helpful: Have you been strangled? Or smothered so you couldn’t breathe?
I encourage you to take your time reading it and to dig into the links within the post. If you feel triggered (upset) while you are reading, please feel free to comment on the post. I read all comments that come in to this blog and I reply (maybe not promptly) but Lord willing I will eventually reply to any comment when I feel I can say something helpful or encouraging to the commenter.
Many professionals are not well trained in identifying and responding to a choking / strangulation event. The health professionals who are dealing with you might find this article by a Brian Bennett helpful: Most victims of strangulation will not have visible external injuries.
Brian Bennett is a police officer with 20 years of law enforcement experience. He serves as an instructor at the South Carolina Criminal Justice Academy. His is skilled in various law enforcement disciplines and is court qualified as an expert in police training. Areas of expertise include domestic violence, vulnerable adult victimization and strangulation. He can be reached at Bkbennett@sccja.sc.gov.
I want to assure you it is not your fault. You are not to blame. The man who has abused you is to blame. If he has roped in any allies, those allies are also to blame, especially if those allies are professionals (professionals ought to know better than take the side of the abuser!).
Thank you, Barbara, for your blog. I was shocked to read about the ‘Jeff’ saga. I remember reading his blog [post] on the abuser playing the victim. It was so true! It was as if he knew exactly what game the abuser was playing! And the more I think about the relationship I had with my former husband the more I see it as a game to him. An ego game. Nothing more. Now I am supporting my daughter going through the same thing, being ‘baited’ to play his game of ego-poly.
Oh the tangled web of deceit that we fall for!
But our God is faithful and good. He is there for us saying “It’s OK.”
Thanks, Kelly.
I’m still getting over the ponderous realisation that Jeff is an abuser. I now say I have had three abusers: my two husbands and then my fellow blogger. Shame upon shame. I know (intellectually) that the shame belongs to them, not me. But my emotional self still does not know that.
Bless you for helping your daughter. I’m sure she will appreciate your support; if not now, then later. 🙂