A Cry For Justice

Awakening the Evangelical Church to Domestic Violence and Abuse in its Midst

Why is Scott Brown and His National Center for Family Integrated Churches Still Featuring Doug Phillips’ Teaching?

So there I was, cruising around the NCFIC website searching for illustrations of works-righteousness teaching (and the hunting was very good there, I can tell you), I stumbled across at least a couple of lectures by none other than Doug Phillips, recently departed Vision Forum lead man. Now, why in the world have these not been deleted?

Have a listen, if you dare. It will freak you out if you are normal:

How Fathers Qualify Suitors and Receive Daughters, by Doug Phillips

Update: I went back to the website and found about 30, yes 30 of Phillips’ messages still there.  Some of the titles are repeated in their listing, but 30 is pretty close. Check them out at this link. You will find the titles quite interesting:

Doug Phillips Lectures Still at NCFIC Website

Why, Mr. Brown?

32 Comments

  1. sandy

    I am always amazed at the requirements for a potential husband. As I heard recently, Jesus would not even have had all the right qualifications.

  2. HisEzer

    To your question of “Why?” …Here’s a good guess: Because of the “boys club” mentality… These men are all cut from the same cloth, so they stick together no matter what. After all, how could he who is guilty himself of one form of abuse or another cast judgment against a fellow brother in the same camp? It’s not going to happen. (If they aren’t all having affairs themselves, they are at least likely indulging regularly in pornography. For when women are seen more as property than partners and viewed as spiritually subordinate — incapable of hearing clearly from God apart from the help of a male authority… misogynistic, objectification of women and self-promoting behaviors are the natural outflow for such men). I used to be in a family integrated church fellowship just a few miles from Scott Brown’s whose leaders were all very close to both Brown and Phillips. One of their most prominent characteristics is the fact they cannot recognize — much less confess and own — double standards and harmful choices. I left because of all the favoritism, manipulation, unfounded accusations, double-standards, and other forms of spiritual abuse practiced when I sought their help regarding my abusive marriage. And I still struggle today due to their actions/inaction which enabled my husband to continue in sin…. ( which has now resulted in our destroyed marriage). To this day, they continue to see me as the problem because I presented questions about the confusions and inconsistencies I was experiencing (of which they felt entitled to not have to answer or explain) and did not just accept their misguided declarations and instructions.

    This same kind of spiritual and emotional abuse toward women most likely is occurring in Scott Brown’s church, too. Hope I am wrong…. But seriously doubt it based on what has been experienced.

    (I can only imagine the emails being exchanged right now between all these leaders as they explore about how best to deal with the Phillips fiasco)….

    • Jeff Crippen

      Thank you for those insights, HisEzer. I appreciate your firsthand observations and I am sure they are right on.

    • I’m currently wondering if it would be possible to find Doug speaking about porn. If he defined it as adultery, then he’s more than met what I assume is his own standard for divorce, despite the fact that his public statements were obviously intended to make it look like he hadn’t because the affair didn’t go “all the way.”

    • IamMyBeloved's

      Sounds like all family integrated “c”hurches are equal on all counts, for enabling abusers and not dealing with the sin of abuse in marriage. But then, what do we expect from blind guides? That they would lead us the right way – toward God’s truths? May God bring everyone of these men and their “c”hurches down, until there is no more abuse of women and children and no more family, father and husband worship. Maybe in the process, they will come clean and repent of their sin. They have changed many Scriptures to suit their agenda, even changing the Scriptures to indicate that the husband sanctifies the wife, in place of Christ doing the sanctifying.

    • Hester, I know you didn’t mean it this way, but can I suggest we don’t use the word ‘affair’ when talking about Doug Phillips’s relationship with this young woman. I think the word ‘relationship’ is more appropriate.
      Why? Because the word ‘affair’ has connotations of being mutually consensual — a thing that happens between people who possess equal power and equal liberty of choice. I think that it is most likely that the young woman had far less power and far fewer choices that DP had, and the way he abused and took advantage of the power imbalance between her and him was execrable. And if it turns out that the young woman was underage when it began, that would mean the word ‘affair’ is even more of an airbrush.

      Sorry to be the linguistic policewoman, but I trust you know I mean well. And I really appreciate your comments on our blog, Hester. 🙂

  3. Why, Mr. Brown?

    Denial?

  4. LorenHaas

    Patriachalists will not see an inevitable linkage between their beliefs and this outcome. Just because Doug Phillips “stumbled” his theology is not questioned.

    • Jeff Crippen

      Good point Loren. And yet you are correct – the bad fruit is the result of their bad theology. Or rather, of their false gospel. Because that is precisely what it is.

    • HisEzer

      Exactly, Loren. Phillips just had a “momentary stumble” – like many of the great patriarchs of old. In a couple of years he will likely be compared to David – a great leader and “man after God’s own heart” ….
      Though they would be quick to deny it, patriarchal leaders actually view the genesis curse (which explains how the heart of man will be one which *seeks to dominate* his wife) as the mandate to live by ???? rather than to resist and overcome through the power of Christ.
      They also twist the words of the Great Commission — “Go and MAKE disciples of all men”… seeing these words as support for the “take dominion” mentality. The end result of their ideals – if they were allowed to be implemented — would be a world governed by an enforced form of Christianity very close to that of Islamic Sharia law.

      • Though they would be quick to deny it, patriarchal leaders actually view the genesis curse (which explains how the heart of man will be one which *seeks to dominate* his wife) as the mandate to live by ???? rather than to resist and overcome through the power of Christ.

        Yep.

        They also twist the words of the Great Commission — “Go and MAKE disciples of all men”… seeing these words as support for the “take dominion” mentality. The end result of their ideals – if they were allowed to be implemented — would be a world governed by an enforced form of Christianity very close to that of Islamic Sharia law.

        Yep.

  5. I downloaded all the pertinent audio lectures for critique at a later date, as I’m sure they will vanish from the internet shortly.

    • Katy

      Smart thinking Hester.
      The sermon on “fathers qualifying suitors” was super creepy. I listened to the whole thing but I felt like I was wasting an hour of my life, so I tried to multi-task while it was playing.

      He keeps talking about dominion, the only scriptures referenced were the story of the creation of Adam and Eve (and he pulls conclusions from that story that aren’t obvious), plus the examples of Laban and Saul as bad fathers.

      That’s it — an entire hour of preaching on how fathers are to choose husbands for their daughters, and he couldn’t point to anything scriptural. It was all about his glory days as a hormone-riddled teenager, hanging out with his mentor and this dude’s 5 gloriously hot daughters. And how that mentor shaped him.

      The weird thing about Phillips is his attempts at humor – the audience chuckles as if he is making some great jokes…but I felt like it was a display of sarcasm and ridicule and male chauvinism, dressed up as “manly” humor, Godly even. There was not one ounce of humility in this hour long speech.

      This guy has serious issues.

      • Ah yes, Bob Gifford with his Joisey accent and his five beautiful daughters. I cannot count how many times I’ve heard about him in the 20+ hours of VF material I’ve listened to for my blog. (And yes, Doug does try to do the accent too sometimes.) Did he tell the story about how Bob forbade one of the suitors from marrying his daughter? He did in How to Evaluate a Suitor. The young man ran off and hastily married someone else, then got divorced and eventually came back to Bob and thanked him for respecting him enough to tell him no.

        As for dominion, that’s standard. He sees marriage as a “dominion work” where the wife follows the husband. Of course when you’re Reconstructionist, I’m pretty sure everything is about dominion.

      • Jeff Crippen

        It would seem to my recollection that the Great Commission does not say “Go to all the nations and obtain wives from every country and procreate with them so that you can populate the earth with holy seed.” I think out mission is to preach the gospel to the nations so that the Spirit of God can, in conjunction with the gospel proclaimed, grant faith and repentance to the hearers, thus effect a new birth in them. The dominion/reconstructionist types are nothing but Old Testament Pharisees who firmly believe that it is their mission to set up heaven on earth for Christ. Women and wombs of course are quite vital in such a plan.

      • Jeff Crippen

        Phillips has one message in which, at least if I gather correctly from the title, he instructs parents on the proper naming of children. The VF website still says ““The greatest joys in Doug’s life are his wife Beall and the eight children that God has graciously given to them: Joshua, Justice, Liberty, Jubilee, Faith Evangeline, Honor, Providence, and Virginia Hope.”

        Now, I don’t want to put down any of those kids or anyone who has any of the same names these children do. But let’s face it – does a person truly, really want to be named Justice, or Jubilee, or Liberty, or Honor or…..? See what I mean? “Hi there. What’s your name?” They are going to have to deal with that question their entire lives. These kinds of practices simply serve to further isolate the children from the world around them in a very unhelpful way.

    • Jeff Crippen

      Great move Hester. And let us know when you set out to do the critiques. We would LOVE to hear what you have to say.

    • Jeff Crippen

      Actually, Hester and Katy, I have never listened to any of these guys’ lectures or sermons. I know all I want to know about them by thumbing through the Vision Forum catalogs and perusing their website. Scripture is very limited in providing us with appropriate terms to shout while listening to such garbage. I mean, we can yell “you sons of Belial!” but that’s about all I know of.

    • Good thinking, Hester. I shall contact you for the archived audios if ever I need them. I like your thoroughness!

  6. Anna

    Crazy stuff…I can’t listen to it all because it’s just too upsetting. I’m sad for anyone who is bound in this religious system.

  7. T.W. Eston

    Jeff,
    I don’t know if you were aware of it but Scott Brown preached a sermon on Nov 10 entitled “The Smell Of Apostasy.” In it he states:

    39:37 — “One of my dear friends has fallen into a great sin. And there are many people that say, ‘Oh, that could have been me.’ But the truth is I hope not, because one falls into that kind of sin after many, many small compromises long before. No one just immediately falls into that sin. They fall because they have been falling. My friend Paul Washer says, ‘You don’t fall into sin. You slide into it.’ Because every public sin is a private sin beforehand. I was telling our interns the other day that I could take everything I’ve done in forty years and destroy it in one second. All I would have to do is kiss a girl and it would all be over. Everything. It would all be burnt to the ground. But let me just make this point. You do not kiss a girl without doing many other things beforehand. You do not fall into sin. You slide. You make one compromise after another. Every public sin is a private sin for a very long time before… Brothers, mortify, expunge, every vestige of lust that would inflame it… But you would not do it [immorality] if you did not cultivate it. So do not cultivate it… Please do not burn everything to the ground. Please do not destroy everything that you’ve worked for your entire life. Everything you’ve ever done will be compromised and everything you’ve ever done will be burned to the ground.”

    It’s more than obvious from the sermon that the dear friend Brown speaks of is Doug Philips. The title of the sermon is especially telling, and the timing is remarkable. Note that it was preached almost two weeks after Phillips’ alleged public announcement of “repentance.” When Brown speaks of Phillips’ apostasy, he’s not talking about past tense apostasy, but present tense apostasy. While many on the internet are praising Doug Phillips for his alleged repentance, one of his closest friends isn’t buying it.

    • StandsWithAFist

      “Please do not burn everything to the ground. Please do not destroy everything that you’ve worked ifor your entire life. Everything you’ve ever done will be compromised and everything you’ve ever done will be burned to the ground.” I’m a little late to this thread, however this comment from Scott Brown is a good example of his own narcissism. He does NOT say “everything you’ve done for God” but rather, “everything you have worked for”, meaning “self”. It is very subtle, almost seductive, (as is much spiritual abuse) yet undeniably self-absorbed. The focus is not on grieving the heart of God or shaming Christ; no, indeed–the focus is on “all your hard work”, the focus is on self, “how to avoid a scandal”. It is idolatry, but “the emperor has no clothes”. It’s all a sham.

      • Jeff Crippen

        Thank you StandsWithAFist. Very good insight here. Increasingly we are seeing Christless systems. These men are called on their sins, yet in their “repentance” they so rarely confess “I have brought shame to the name of Jesus Christ.” Rather it is more about “I acted foolishly. I am ashamed of myself. That was not wise of me.” But where is Christ in all this?

      • StandsWithAFist, That man was allowed in our church as a speaker and we hosted a NCFIC meeting. I was sucked in for some time and then began to investigate. Turned out the pastor was already a disciple prior to 2002. Since then he’s been on the movie ‘Divided’, spoken at NCFIC and Christian Heritage conferences and is enjoying the adulation of folks like me: sincere but not aware. He was one of the speakers in a telephone interview on ‘transforming’ a church. SB is a DP clone, is dangerous to Christians and to Christian Churches. I believe he is interested in establishing himself NOT Christ Jesus. Sadly most sucked into his system become the same. Stay away from pastor rule churches and you’ll be miles ahead. I made the mistake of not doing that; won’t do it again. Never.

    • Andrew McDonald

      I believe that SB knew about this long before the public announcement. He was just grandstanding. I think he is a self aggrandizing ego maniac. The NCFIC teachings are divisive and full of error. It may seem odd but I say that with no malice. I just believe it is accurate and sad. Jesus warned us of such teachers.

  8. Jeff Crippen

    Thanks very much TW. I agree with Scott Brown’s words and I hope that it means he will be removing all of Phillip’s lectures from the website. Because what Brown says would indicate that Phillip’s teaching has been skewed for a long time. What do you think? I appreciate your input.

  9. T.W. Eston

    If Scott Brown does take Doug Phillips’ teachings off the NCFIC web site, and I do see that happening soon, it won’t be for any other reason than out of embarrassment over Doug’s adultery.

    “Because what Brown says would indicate that Phillip’s teaching has been skewed for a long time.” That’s not what Scott Brown is saying in his sermon at all. Scott Brown isn’t charging Doug Phillips with apostasy as it concerns moral beliefs and teachings. He and Phillips are on the same exact doctrinal page — home schooling, patriarchy, family integrated church, stay at home daughters, quiver full, etc. Just read his statement at http://www.visionforumministries.org/home/about/the_board_of_vision_forum_mini.aspx When Scott Brown speaks of Doug Phillips’ apostasy he’s addressing Phillips’ sinful behavior which is diametrically opposed to the messages that Phillips preaches, one of which would be “Thou shalt not commit adultery.” But that’s only one of the ways in which Doug Phillips has become, over the period of at least ten years, apostate.

    There is much more long term sin in Phillips’ life than just the sin of years of adultery, and those are sins that Phillips has never repented of and likely never will. Scott Brown is now aware of some of those apostasies and over coming days and weeks will become aware of even more. We’re talking heinous sin, even criminal acts, far worse than just cheating on his wife. Those in the know about it are gaining courage to speak, less intimidated by the threat of being sued (a threat which Doug Phillips has made many times to silence any who have attempted to hold him accountable) and will hopefully be telling their stories in time.

    • IamMyBeloved's

      Thanks T.W.

      Mr. Phillips is not the only one in this movement that threatens suit for anyone speaking up. It seems to be prevalent. Anyone who is likely to reveal the secrets about any of these pastors is threatened with either suit, excommunication or lied about and shunned. Time for the truth to prevail, and it seems that God is uncovering all of it, in various circles of this movement, to bring out the “gods” they have created, while calling them God. I won’t forget hearing some of these men say that when they speak, it is God speaking, and telling people that they stand in the place of the “priest” for them. There is no coming to Christ on your own, with these pastors – they do that for you. Ha! That, in fact, is heresy and it needs to be exposed so these men can either repent, or fall. I truly believe that if the men in my specific situation had been given by God the power they so craved to have over me, they would have burned me at the stake in their “c”hurch parking lot. I won’t ever forget sitting in that “c”hurch and praying that Jesus would be in the midst of what was happening to me and my family, and Him replying to me, “I am not here”. I tried to leave immediately at that point, and was hindered from doing so. Funny thing is, people try to leave these cultic places, and are prevented from doing so, with threats of excommunication or just plain destroying the person who wants to leave, as was the case in my case, although in my case, I had already left the “c”hurch and was dragged back by them, so they could excommunicate me. Talk about spiritual abuse! These men appear to be blind, Pharisaical guides, who have no intention of looking at their own sin, are loaded with double standards and are only focused on power, control and entitlement – believing they have non with which they need to be held to account. They see themselves in the place of God. God absolutely hates it –

  10. HisEzer

    Wonder if underneath it all, Scott Brown’s motivation for taking the lead on addressing Phillips is for his own personal gain? i.e. whoever can fill the vacuum of Phillips displaced followers will be in a position of great potential monetarily… Hmmm…Perhaps there has even been some hidden rivalry between them… Sad to be thinking this way and I pray I am 100% wrong — that there is no hint of this motivation whatsoever… but knowing what I know about the mindset of “taking dominion” I simply have to wonder.

    • Andrew McDonald

      Just found this blog. HisEzer you need to investigate Mr. Brown and you’ll soon understand him and once you do you will have nothing to do with him or his group. Please, please don’t be taken in by the neat packaging.

  11. gigilouise

    I completely agree with the previous suspicion. These guys are all corrupt and out for their own gain. After watching all the trips/lifestyles that naïve Vision Forum followers fund, I have no doubt these men are anxious to see who will be clever enough to fill the vacuum Doug left and live his lavish lifestyle on other people’s dimes. The Family Integrated Church Movement is no less corrupt than Vision Forum. Why do you think it took so long for Scott Brown to speak up?

Trackbacks

  1. Supporting Survivors of Doug Phillips Apostasy, Part 2 | Spiritual Sounding Board

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