A Cry For Justice

Awakening the Evangelical Church to Domestic Violence and Abuse in its Midst

Blasted by a Woman Who Says We Are Dangerous

UPDATE Sept 2021: I have come to believe that Jeff Crippen does not practise what he preaches. He vilely persecuted an abuse victim and spiritually abused many other people in the Tillamook congregation. Go here to read the evidence. Jeff has not gone to the people that he spiritually and emotionally abused. He has not apologised to them, let alone asked for their forgiveness.

***

Originally I sent the following comment to the bin, but I decided this morning to insert it in an article so all of you could see it.  On this blog, we don’t get too many of these kinds of blasts – though Facebook was another story.  I think it would be good for us to all read this and comment/interact with the accusations this lady is making.  I assume it is from a woman, as she used a woman’s name. (I specified “woman” in the title to emphasize that even women are often anti-reformation when it comes to abuse).  Of course in the cyber world you never know.  This could be an abusive male posing as a woman too.  I am learning however that professing Christian women are not necessarily on our side either.  They just don’t know, or they don’t want to know, or they have too much to lose personally if this whole abuse in the church issue gets “out of hand.”  Anyway, here is what Shellie had to say to us in response to our article on divorce being permissible for abuse:

BEGIN QUOTE:

I just happened on this site, and this is foolish and unbiblical. The bible says what it says. And sorry to inform your ,respectfully, but God sent Jesus Christ, His Son to suffer and die on a cross, but he wants you to be happy, and get justice? I don’t know what bible you read, but this is just unbiblical gibberish. You need to go to the root. Sin. You take such a pious stand against the one you call the ‘abuser’. Isn’t he or she a sinner just like you and I? Don’t they deserve grace ,and didn’t the ‘abused’ enter into a marriage with them? A covenant? The root, is sin. Sin that is being smoothed over in the churches that live like the pagans. The fathers are not being taught how to be biblical fathers and husbands. The wives are not being taught how to be biblical wives. The church is looking no different from the pagan culture and like this blog they revel in it, and defend it. Very sad. Christians are to be distinct, following God word, because they love Him and am grateful that He saved them. But no…they sit in judgement of good men of God exhorting His word in context. They use words like justice, infuriated, changing the bible to fit their ideas. Very dangerous stuff here. As Christians we want to heal, and restore. Not get on a soapbox and tear down. Just the Sermon on the Mount alone rebukes the attitudes on this page…but so much is wrong about the approach of tearing down families instead of working to restore .Please read your bible in context, looking for what God wants and not what you think is fair, or equitable. Please.

END QUOTE.

Gee, Shellie, honest – we aren’t demons.  We aren’t out to trash God’s Word.  WE AREN’T the ABUSER!  The abuser is the one who is tearing down families and marriages. Not us.  We are trying to rescue the victims of his evil.  The wives and the children.  Wouldn’t you agree that it is correct to be a Berean Christian, searching the Scriptures to see if what our teachers in the church are teaching us is Scriptural?  That it is wrong for any Christian to simply swallow what is taught them just because the teacher has a big name, has done some good things, and has published a lot of books?  Yes, we do indeed sit in discerning judgment upon good men of God, and if they are good men of God, they will commend us for it, not attack us.

Shellie – we are searching our Bible.  And guess what we are finding?  God’s desire is FOR justice and equity.  He is not in opposition to those things, He IS those things.  You apparently have notions of God and Christ that are unbiblical –  He doesn’t want people happy?  Many times people who think this way have a history that has led them to these erroneous concepts of a god who is capricious. cruel, constantly holding a club over our heads, always unhappy with us.  But that is not the God of the Bible.  I truly hope that one day you might be set free of the bondage you appear to be in.

One point of agreement with you: this is indeed a dangerous blog site.  Very dangerous.  What you have to ask yourself however is – dangerous to whom?

24 Comments

  1. Besides the point that she took everything you wrote out of context– oh wait, that might actually *be* the point.

    Taking things out of context. Refusing to actually dig into the scriptures for yourself and taking the word of others for what the bible teaches. In the name of unity perhaps? I’m thinking that just might be unbiblical.

    Yes indeed– the problem is sin. But who’s? The victims for wanting to leave so they can live in peace? Or the abuser for desiring to control, manipulate, dominate, subjugate everyone around him, including but not limited to, his wife and children?

    Divorce can be the cure, not the kill. Its simply the funeral for a marriage that’s already dead, rotting and poisoning everything it touches including the children and the other marriages in the church. It’s the equivalent of amputating a gangrenous leg to keep the whole body from dying. To cover that over is the essence of living a lie.

    Living like the pagans? These abusive husbands are the ones living like the pagans– just ask a few victims.

  2. “The root,is sin.Sin that is being smoothed over in the churches that live like the pagans.The fathers are not being taught how to be bibllical fathers and husbands.The wives are not being taught how to be biblical wives.”
    Those sound like the words of someone (I suspect its a man) who subscribes to a Father-Rule cult like Vision Forum.

    And another key: the writer ascribes the problem to “sin”. But sin is done by an agent: the sinner. It’s typical of abusers and their allies to use language that obscures responsibility. Passive verbs. Abstract nouns. Verb with no discernible subject.

    Also typical is the allusion to biblical teaching without actually demonstrating how any bible passage would support their case.

    “they sit in judgement of good men of God…”
    Didn’t Jesus say something about calling men “good”? Yeah:
    “No one is good except God alone.” (Luke 18:19)

    “Isn’t he or she [the abuser] a sinner just like you and I? Don’t they deserve grace?”
    This language is typical of abuses and the ignorant allies of abuser.
    But the Bible talks about some sins being much more severe than other sins, meriting much more punishment than other sins. And some people sin so gravely we are not even to pray for them (e.g. Luke 10:13; 1 John 5:16-17)

    “and didn’t the ‘abused’ enter into a marriage with them? A covenant?”
    That is just the way an abuser speaks when his victim has left. He pulls the Covenant card to guilt her into returning. His believes his Covenant Card is stamped “Unbreakable. Indissoluble.”
    He tells her: “Christ promises to keep his covenant with his people, so you aren’t allowed to break our marriage covenant. And I’m not breaking it because I have the right to define what I do. And what I do is not abuse. ”
    You can’t argue with someone who sets the rules of the discussion purely to suit himself. The only way to deal with him is to have zero contact, if possible, or minimal contact if zero contact is not possible.

    • Jeff Crippen

      Actually, one advantage of blog life is that you can have zero contact. “Shellie” has indeed been relegated to the spam heap. Unfortunately, it isn’t that easy in real face-to-face life.

      Yes, Barbara, this most likely is a male abuser in cyber-drag.

  3. joepote01

    Hmmm…

    Shellie, first of all, God loves you, and nobody I know of on this site is your enemy.

    “God sent Jesus Christ,His Son to suffer and die on a cross,but he wants you to be happy,and get justice?” Yes, that is precisely WHY Jesus suffered and died on the cross, for our salvation, joy, peace, and justice. “For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoseoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”

    “You need to go to the root.Sin.” Yes, absolutely! Sin is the root of evil. From what I’ve read on here, I would say that is rather the focus of this website, exposing sin for the evil it is.

    “Don’t they deserve grace?” No, frankly, none of us deserve grace. That’s why it is called grace…it is undeserved merit…a free gift given of God. God, does, however, offer grace to both abuser and abused. We are all sinners, and we are all totally reliant on God’s grace for our salvation. However, that does not mean that we should unnecessarily expose ourselves to vindictive evil, nor that we should instruct others to do the same. God did not leave the Israelites in bondage to Egypt, and He does not intend for His children, today, to remain in bondage to an abusive spouse.

    “As christians we want to heal,and restore.” Yes, God’s heart is to heal and restore. In the context of an abusive covenant of bondage, that means redemption from the covenant of bondage for the abused, so they may be emotionally and spiritually healed and restored to a healthy relationship with both God and fellow believers.

  4. I’ve had time to think about this and I think Jeff may actually be dangerous as he’s over on Anna’s blog this morning throwing tomatoes.

    I’m pretty sure the rest of us are harmless.

  5. Whew …. my head is buzzing just trying to make sense out of Shellie’s post. How confusing must it be, day after day, for a victim in her/his environment to try to make sense out of something that doesn’t make sense. If “she” is truly a she, then I fear she needs to be lovingly rescued out of her cult and be de-programmed. Alas, I think Shellie is a “he,” and all the reasoning in the world isn’t going to make a difference to someone who twists Scripture to meet his own ends.

    • Jeff Crippen

      I think you have it right. Unfortunately even if this is a guy, his words sound a whole lot like what is being taught in many of our conservative, Bible-believing churches. At least the elements of it are. Teach fathers their roles. Teach mothers and wives their roles. Make the family a model. Then all will be well. Everyone is a sinner. The answer is the same for each one. Etc. It all sounds good, but it really totally ignores the evil and deceptive nature of sin. Most Christians are naive about evil. Therefore, the sociopathic abuser walks right past them. I am still trying to sort out what has crept into the church under the label of Scripture, but I am suspecting that to come degree superstition is also involved. Formulas that treat Christ like a power to be reached via magic. As I said, I am still working through this. But I do know that wherever superstition reigns, people freak out when it is threatened. The gospel and Scripture are not magic, not superstition, but truth.

  6. cindy burrell

    I’m glad that you shared this – if nothing more than to shine a light on the kinds of attacks that believers in this kind of ministry can expect and to stir up our hearts to pursue Him and His truth and encourage those who live in the crosshairs.

    • Jeff Crippen

      Thanks Cindy. I feel like I am getting a note from Satan whenever I read something like this, directed to me or Anna or any of us. It is an attack of the devil. You hear the hatred in the words. And he usually comes as a “Christian.” I mean, we are NOT going to get these attacks on this issue from the world as such. This tells us that some forms of conservative Christianity are not of the Lord. To what extent, I don’t know. But any so-called church that puts the oppressed in such bondage has gone seriously wrong.

  7. survivor

    Jeff, I’m so glad you’ve exposed this person, or rather the tactics of these types of people. Her writings mirror that of a female friend of mine who once wrote similar things to me and other survivors. I persisted in the conversation a while, then had to bow out as it was obviously hitting a brick wall. To confirm I wasn’t going crazy, I sent what she wrote to a Bible College lecturer, who said it was full of Christianese rubbish.

    Thank you to the commenters for their responses – love them!

    What I usually do is analyse such letters (without sending it back to the writer). But I think it would be helpful for everyone reading it, in case there are stalkers who are wondering what is in error. I’ve put my comments in capitals because I don’t have the option of using colors.

    “God sent Jesus Christ, His Son to suffer and die on a cross,but he wants you to be happy,and get justice? [STRAW MAN FALLACY: THAT’S NOT THE POSITION OF THIS BLOG]….

    You need to go to the root. [VERBAL ABUSE – DEFINING WHAT ANOTHER “NEEDS TO DO” AS IF YOU KNOW]

    You take such a pious stand against the one you call the ‘abuser’. [V.A. – DEFINING WHAT A PERSON IS DOING WITHOUT KNOWING].

    Isn’t he or she a sinner just like you and I?Don’t they deserve grace [STRAWMAN FALLACY AGAIN] ,and didn’t the ‘abused’ enter into a marriage with them? [PRECISELY, BUT IS OUR VIEW OF BIBLICAL MARRIAGE THAT LOW THAT WE EQUATE SUCH EVIL DICTATORSHIPS WITH MARRIAGE?] A covenant?The root,is sin.Sin that is being smoothed over in the churches that live like the pagans.

    The fathers are not being taught how to be bibllical fathers and husbands.[HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT? MY CHURCH AND DENOMINATION HAS EXCELLENT TEACHING ON FATHERS AND HUSBANDS]The wives are not being taught how to be biblical wives [HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT? DID GOTHARD TEACH WIVES NOT TO BE BIBLICAL WIVES? DID DOBSON DO THAT? DID GARY SMALLEY DO THAT? DID OMARTIAN DO THAT? GO TAKE IT UP WITH THEM]

    The church is looking no different from the pagan culture and like this blog they revel in it,and defend it. [STRAWMAN FALLACY – THIS COMMUNITY IS NOT DEFENDING PAGAN CULTURE]

    they sit in judgement of good men of God exhorting His word in context.[THERE WAS NO JUDGEMENT, ONLY POINTING OUT WHAT IS IN ERROR. JESUS SAYS WE ARE TO JUDGE RIGHTEOUSLY JOHN 7:24]

    They use words like justice,infuriated,changing the bible to fit their ideas. [V.A. -DEFINING WHY WE DO THINGS. BESIDES, GOD USES WORDS LIKE JUSTICE, INFURIATED – READ PS 5, PS 7, PS 11, ESP PS 7:11]

    As christians we want to heal,and restore.Not get on a soapbox and tear down. [YOU CANNOT HEAL AND RESTORE BY NOT TEARING DOWN THE INFECTION, THE PATHOGEN, THE POISON]

    Just the Sermon on the Mount alone rebukes the attitudes on this page [A KIND OF APPEAL TO AUTHORITY FALLACY – VERY VAGUE CLAIM ANYWAY]…

    but so much is wrong about the approach of tearing down families instead of working to restore. [AS LUNDY BANCROFT SAYS, REVERSAL OF TRUTH HAPPENS – ABUSERS TEAR DOWN FAMILIES, THOSE FIGHTING ABUSE TEAR DOWN ABUSE AND RESTORE FAMILIES]

    Please read your bible in context,looking for what God wants and not what you think is fair,or equitable.Please. [V.A. – DEFINING, ASSUMING, LOADED]

    • Jeff Crippen

      Yes, and that is why it really is more for OUR benefit to label and identify the tactics and logical breakdown of these kinds of attacking rants. Generally, such a person simply will not listen. The important thing is that we come to the place of recognizing what they are doing so that we don’t fall into all the false guilt and blame receiving they throw.

      • Survivor, your critique is excellent. You are brilliant at knowing how to label exegetical and logical fallacies. Thanks!

  8. “Isn’t he or she a sinner just like you and I? Don’t they deserve grace?”

    If favor is shown to the wicked, he does not learn righteousness;
    in the land of uprightness he deals corruptly
    and does not see the majesty of the LORD.
    (Isaiah 26:10 ESV)

  9. Barnabasintraining

    Don’t they deserve grace,and didn’t the ‘abused’ enter into a marriage with them?A covenant?The root,is sin.Sin that is being smoothed over in the churches that live like the pagans.The fathers are not being taught how to be bibllical fathers and husbands.The wives are not being taught how to be biblical wives.The church is looking no different from the pagan culture and like this blog they revel in it,and defend it.Very sad.

    Hmm. Argument framed as Pagan vs. Christian culture; father emphasis in that the main sin in the church today is that fathers (not men) are not being taught to be Biblical fathers and husbands (fathers comes first) and wives are not taught to be Biblical wives; dogmatic, accusing tone in spite of commenting “respectfully”…

    If I had to guess I’d say this person is Vision Forum influenced with possible Gothard teaching thrown in.

    • Jeff Crippen

      Very good insights, yes. Particularly your observation of how it puts fathers in the fore rather than men. Interesting. Patriarchy is not good. Salvation by family values. Which is, of course, a false gospel and it sure doesn’t seem to be working.

  10. Well, Pastor Crippen, your mission is creating a stir on my personal facebook page as well.

    “Sarah Obenheim” writes: “Marie Kvam your a liar that is why Jeff Crippens church is being Protested for lies and slander. Your job place is going to be protested also the branch at American Family Insurance. You don’t like fathers rights groups let me tell you something you little bitch. Once this comes out what you say about them I guarantee you one thing. All of them are going to be pulling there insurance policy’s with your company to a other. Your company will lose business over you and your little cry baby oh men hate me pre madonna crap. Just in your area alone Marie about over 50 people are going to end there policy with you branch at your insurance company over you. You think the man you work for is going to like the loss of business? Is this all worth the loss of money and reputation? People don’t have to buy your insurance if they don’t agree with what it supports. This will not be just your branch we are calling for a nation wide boycott on American Family Insurance OVER YOU. You know how many men don’t like your BS that will be more than happy to end there insurance with AmFam OVER YOU. You woman are not Christians I see you warp the bible to fit your little girl feminist agenda its all been copied and will be brought to the public. So Marie I see your going to have some issues your bullying and lies and slander and miss information is about to be exposed. Have a Good night.”

    In my estimation, it confirms we are on exactly the right track. Praise God! Btw.. The “50 people” have yet to arrive ~ not that I was actually expecting them to do so. Did your Protest Group show last Sunday?

    There is sure never a dull moment in God’s will at times. That is for certain!

  11. Well done!

    • Jeff Crippen

      Well, Marie, that is pretty exciting alright. Glad to heat things up over there for you. And thank you once again for being with us and joining us on the blog. It is indeed a real Christian mission, true religion to visit widows and orphans in their need.

  12. Joey

    Obviously you are shining a light on an issue that the devil would rather be left to the dark where it can fester and he can continue to kill, rob and destroy God’s children at leisure. He has been using abuse to destroy not only the soul of the abuser, but to take entire families. and churches down with them. Old satan hates being outed and “Shellie’s” ignorant tirade is just a confirmation of that. The devil only attacks those who are a threat to him! I couldn’t help but notice she did not quote even one Scripture to back up her point!!!.

    • Agreed Joey. Thanks for commenting. It is exciting to be a part of Pastor Crippen’s mission!

  13. I have a feeling that sort of protest would backfire right in the face of “Ms. Sarah.” Not that I actually believe for one moment there’s an ounce of truth in any part of that comment.

    A little media attention would be marvelous! Can you imagine all the women, along with the 2/3rds of the male population that *isn’t* abusive, all getting brand new policies from American Families Insurance? Plus the focused attention of the insanity spewing from the mouth of Ms. Sarah! The thought is pretty exciting 🙂 And a national platform with a bunch of people who truly love Jesus, able to proclaim liberty to the captives. . .

    I just might faint— Oh Myrtle! Get my pills 🙂

    • Let’s try this again ~ only posting it in the right spot this time 🙂

      How true, Ida Mae! I am laughing to the point of tears after reading your comment. For fun, let’s pray others are led to read it as well. “Sarah” posted on my personal facebook page, insurance agency page and Christian Men Against Domestic Violence page (tried, but it was blocked…). It is hilarious! She makes me out to be someone important and influencial who is in cohoots with Pastor Crippen. Sorry, but I’m a simple small town gal. I did not even bother to defend myself, but perhaps I should have posted the Domestic Violence wheel and used her “comment” for illustrative purposes. “She” has since removed the comment which I rather anticipated as well. That is why I copied it along with “her” profile.

      Bring it on! We are going to stand firm in Him. God bless you, Ida Mae. Thanks for the laugh. I so needed to laugh today. Your comment was a tremendous blessing.

    • Romans 8:28 😉

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