Don’t Listen to these Lies — Expose them with the Truth of God’s Word

UPDATE Sept 2021: I have come to believe that Jeff Crippen does not practise what he preaches. He vilely persecuted an abuse victim and spiritually abused many other people in the Tillamook congregation. Go here to read the evidence. Jeff has not gone to the people that he spiritually and emotionally abused. He has not apologised to them, let alone asked for their forgiveness.


I am not going to say anything new in this post. You have all heard it before. But we need to hear it, before, now, and again and again.

An abuse victim who has been targeted not only by her abuser, but by her family members, by her pastor, by the pastor’s wife (I need to write a post about pastor’s wives and how they so often enable the abuser), and by other church members in her church, told me some of the things she is being told:

  • Give him a chance
  • We must forgive people
  • He wants you back
  • He is hurting
  • Stop running from your problems
  • The Bible says for better or worse
  • Stop feeling sorry for yourself

Now, this stuff just makes my blood boil. Lies. All lies. Let me make a few observations and I imagine you all will have some also —

  • Give him a chance — that is what the victim HAS been doing, often for decades!  Yeah, give him a chance to abuse and destroy you all over again.
  • We must forgive people — Really? Does God forgive everyone? Does God forgive when there is no repentance? NO! Does forgiveness necessitate reconciliation? NO!
  • He wants you back — Oh man, you can’t invent this stuff. Yes, he wants her back alright. So his kingdom reign of power and control can be reinstituted in full measure.
  • He is hurting – Oh really. So this means that the people saying these things to the victim have been in contact with the abuser, listening to his plays for pity. They are his allies now. He is hurting? Well how about the victim’s hurts? How is it no one seems to even think about how she has suffered? This is pure EVIL.
  • Stop running from your problems — Ok, well, the next time someone points a gun at your head, or puts poison in your drink, don’t run. Just stand there. Just drink up. And the fact is, abuse victims who leave their abuser, who start calling him on his evil, ARE ceasing to run from their problems! They are now facing those problems square on.
  • The Bible says for better or worse — Now this is rich. I will give $1000 to any of these people who can show me chapter and verse on that one. You see, people take statements made by man and they hear it so often in sermons, and in their laziness they don’t check it out, and pretty soon they elevate it to the Word of God. In addition, “for better or worse” was never meant to mean “you must endure even the most cruel wickedness from your spouse no matter what.”
  • Stop feeling sorry for yourself — Time to get a clue. The person who is feeling sorry for himself is not the victim. It is the abuser. WE must stop feeling sorry for him because his pity ploys are largely how he enlists us as his allies.

To people who lay this cruel garbage on victims, I say go. Just go. Go away and learn what God means when He says He desires mercy, not sacrifice. Close your lips. In the meanwhile, we are done listening to you.

Further Reading

Christians are Very Confused About Forgiveness


79 thoughts on “Don’t Listen to these Lies — Expose them with the Truth of God’s Word”

  1. I heard most of those things too, along with:

    “He appears to be changing” — all the while my then-husband was sending me hate-filled emails telling me how worthless I had been for 20 years to our family.

    “Has he ever hit you?” — as if not being hit meant nothing abusive was taking place. This one always made my blood boil and showed me how clueless most people are to what abuse is.

    “We are to forgive and forget” — Oh, really?? I don’t see where we are to forget anything, how ridiculous! And what this was usually code for was to forgive and reconcile — get over it and stop making such a big deal because God has forgiven you of much worse.

    “We are all sinners” — and I believed this one for a long time and it made it difficult for me to finally seek divorce, but fortunately I changed churches and one Sunday my new pastor spoke on this very thing. He explained the difference between a sinner and a saint, something I admit I did not know until then. That then made me question whether my ex was even a Christian at all.

    And perhaps my favorite:
    “God hates divorce” — another statement which held me captive for far too long until I finally asked God to help me understand what Malachi 2:16 [meant] and after reading it I found myself questioning why I interpreted it differently than what everyone was telling. To me it was right there, fairly black and white, that what God hated was NOT divorce itself, but WHY divorce occurs — violence and treachery being done within a marriage, the breaking of the marriage covenant.

    1. I second your additions. “Forgive and forget” was my abusive husband’s life verse (oh wait that’s not in the Bible… but he quoted it constantly).

      “God hates divorce” is constantly quoted to me even though EVERY time I hear it I correct the person and educate them on the translation. They just get this confused look on their face and then quote it to me again a week later. They hear what I say but it goes in one ear and out the other. It’s amazing how many Christians are robots and don’t even try to process what they are taught.

      I’ll add these ones:

      “He said he is sorry” or “He admitted he did those things.” As if somehow he should get a trophy for that, and I’m just going to fall into his arms totally in love….

  2. Great post, Jeff.

    God requires that we act justly and love mercy. We are to grow in grace and truth. Choosing one without the other is imbalanced, distorts Scripture, and creates havoc…and as you said, heaps garbage on victims.

    You said:

    To people who lay this cruel garbage on victims, I say go. Just go. Go away and learn what God means when He says He desires mercy, not sacrifice. Close your lips. In the meanwhile, we are done listening to you.

  3. Thank you Jeff for understanding and repeating this message.
    Today (Good Friday), remembering the loneliness and isolation of Jesus in Gethsemane and on the cross, let us remember these same emotions are familiar to us victims / targets……. I have been very tearful for most of the day, feeling alone and not understood even by so many Christian friends and family.

    How sad that the one helping me most, understanding me most, is a Pastor from another country!
    Let us remember all the victims feeling alone today on this saddest of days for our Saviour…Who understands our loneliness.
    Blessings to all who struggle today.

    1. Thank you Tess. 🙂 It is all the readers like you who keep me going on this work. You bless me every time you add your thoughts to this blog. And I love the way our readers support each other and help each other by sharing their stories and offering their perspectives.

    2. Tess, I would like to encourage you to keep your eyes fixed on the cross of Christ, just as you are doing on this Good Friday. HE will wipe your tears and joy really does come in the morning. The God on the mountain is the same God in the valley. God bless you on this Easter 🌷

    3. This Good Friday I heard a very encouraging message on Jesus’ words, “Behold your mother” / “behold your son” as he was speaking from the cross to his mother and John and preparing to leave this world. The separation from his earthly mother that was about to occur was a great concern to him, so that even while suffering tremendously he spared a thought for providing for her earthly needs. Can anything separate us from the love of Christ? Not even our Savior’s death on the cross could separate us from the love of Jesus and his tender-hearted provision for us, nor can oceans, nor tragedies, nor misunderstandings, nor any amount of evil people. He is with us, and he cares for us. ❤

  4. I think the words of those “Christians” allies are especially damaging because they claim to speak the words of God. They make a victim begin to doubt God’s love and to wonder if perhaps even He has rejected and abandoned her. It’s almost impossible to teach these people because if a victim speaks out about abuse, they automatically label her as bitter, angry, unforgiving, unloving, without faith…and to discount anything she has to say. There no more unteachable person than the “Christian” who refuses to hear.

    1. Absolutely. They are like the false prophets in Jeremiah’s day who claimed the Lord had sent them. God makes it plain that such people arouse His wrath.

      1. Excuse me while I vomit! UGH! Why don’t they just say what they mean?? “I am man. You are woman. You serve me in any way I see fit. Got that?”

  5. I am so tired of hearing about how I need to be the one that needs to change, stop lying about the abuser. If I hear my adult children say….one more time…”well I know what you did, (translation: he told me what you did) what he’s feeling, that you are delusional, that you are the crazy one, you are the one who needs help, you’re bi-polar, delusional, the abuser,” I think I will scream. God help me…he sold my body! He smothered me, and tried to strangle me, broke my nose, punched me in the mouth and broke out my teeth, threw me out of the house naked and then called the police! Poured bleach all over me, kerosene and tried to light it, starved me, withheld medical care and medication, and poisoned me (with a specific plant that grew in our yard). Sold our home of several decades and threw me away leaving me homeless and destitute, and so much worse!!! And I’M the abuser???? REALLY????

    Actually I am screaming in my soul, and cry out to God on a daily basis, I feel so betrayed by my human father and my children. Especially my children…they lived with him and know what a monster he really is. How can they not see? My heart is broken.

    Thank you for letting my vent.

    I thank God for His Peace, and His Joy. And that my heart and soul are renewed on a daily basis. Thank you for your ongoing ministry through this blog, you absolutely have no idea how much you have helped me.

    Please feel free to edit this as you feel led. But the particulars will not alert anyone as to my identity.

    1. Thank you!!! I suffered through all of those and the ones that Amy posted too. I too struggled with “God hates divorce.” Filing for divorce was the hardest thing I have ever done in my life and none of his allies made it any easier. There are a couple of friends I miss dearly and it angers me that they believed everything he said–20 years of friendship just gone. My children and I left the church because he used the pastor and Elders against me too. I find that I trust no one from my old world and I have started over, but through it all, I am happy I left. No one else saw the ~two dozen years of torment, but I know the truth. My children and I are now free.

      1. Brave blessing and love to you, sweet one. I needed to hear your story, thank you. After seeing my father’s uncovered abusiveness to me, my mother chose to stay with him, although she encouraged me to leave because it was so bad. Right now I am fighting the fight to stay the path, working at healing, but sadly my relationship with my mother is strained because now that I have left she won’t acknowledge the abuse or see my dad as an abuser (although she did previously).

        Thank you so much for sharing your story. Knowing somewhere that there are mothers who took the chance and braced the barrage to save themselves and their children gives me hope. I need to know that I too can be a mother like that someday, that unlike my mum I can be a woman who will fight for my future and the futures of my children too. I’m so glad I saw this comment. Sending love.

    2. Dear GypsyAngel, I am so sorry for what you have been through. How hard it must be to recall all the terrible abuse! But I thank you for posting your experience just so I (and I’m sure others) can pray for you and especially for your children. May God convict them and help them to face truth and reality. I hope they will choose to walk in honesty and live in the freedom and love God has for them and one day show understanding and love to you, rather than ally with your abuser. May God continue to carry you with His peace and joy.

      1. GypsyAngel I will be praying for you! What you described is horrible! I’m so sorry! I will also pray that your children’s eyes will be opened to the TRUTH!

    1. That “get counseling” thing sounds like the Third Reich sending people to concentration camps for re-programming. The Holy Spirit leads us and enables us to hear Jesus’ truth, and the “church” says it is aberrant, requiring counseling for correction.

      1. Often the “get counseling” is just victim blaming–fix the victim and restore the marriage. I made the mistake of going to marriage counseling. Luckily, the counselor had read Lundy Bancroft’s book and helped me understand what was happening. Before that I had been in individual counseling for several years, because I was trying to fix me. I was miserable and I blamed myself for all of the marriage problems. My therapist was awesome, because she helped me gain self-confidence and see that the problem wasn’t me but him.

        My ex was suddenly willing to go to counseling when I said I was filing for divorce. He said he would work on himself. His counselor was horrible and reinforced most of my ex’s beliefs, which escalated the abuse. I finally found the courage to file for divorce. Counseling with the right therapist can help, but the wrong one is a disaster. I stopped counseling right after the divorce was final –funny thing– all of my negative feelings simply went away with him. Today, I am very happy and I know there is nothing wrong with me.

      2. I fully agree, abusers need counselling!! The irony is that for me, God was the One who actually lead me to counselling, and through sessions with a well-trained and wonderful therapist, the Lord helped me to see that I was not a disgusting person unfit to live in the ‘real world’ as my abuser tried to convince me of, but rather under the manipulation and control of a broken narcissistic family member in a family that was highly dysfunctional!

        My family HATES that I go to counselling, I think they feel it’s threatening to uncovering the dysfunction and aknowledging the abuse that is present and acceptable there. But it’s good to live in the truth isn’t it, friends. Uneducated and insensitive people might try to throw counselling in the face of a victim to push them away (shame on them!), in my life I have found that counselling has also been a great tool to work through my story and understand who I am. (Especially when there has not much support elsewhere thanks to the abusive person’s influence.) Sending big love to you. I hope things are ok.

      3. Hi Goldie, abusers typically resist going to counseling. If they do go to counseling, they typically manipulate the counselor to see them as a victim rather than an abuser.

        Men who abuse their female partners do not benefit from one on one counseling: what they need is to attend a Men’s Behavior Change Program. Those programs are also called Domestic Abuse Intervention Programs, or Batterer’s Programs. But here’s the thing: even if the man attends such a program and completes the program, there is no guarantee that man will change. He may become a little better for a while but then revert to as bad or worse than he was before. The program may not be well run, in which case NO man attending it will improve. But even if a program is well run, that won’t guarantee that the man will change long term. And some men who attend such programs become even more skilled abusers as a result because they turn everything the program is teaching them around and use it to falsely accuse / claim that their partner is the real abuser.

        You may find it helpful to check out this page on our blog:
        What if the abusers were one’s parents?

  6. The ones I heard the most were, “You have to think of the kids. Divorce devastates kids, and they’ll never recover,” and the infamous “but does he hit you???”

    1. It’s amazing but recently, after I mentioned the physical abuse to an elder in a conversation about my reasons to divorce, I got “but did he cheat on you?” I said rather tersely I didn’t know, but if he did, it would have been the least of my problems. The Elder was a good person, serving the Lord all of his life and told me with a lot of compassion I was a strong woman. On a heart level he saw “somewhat”, but the incorrect and legalistic “God hates divorce”, was still at the forefront.

      The conversation was a major trigger. I could not sleep that night and cried several times, out of anger. I replayed the conversation many times trying to answer and explain even better to ‘make them see’. As Pastor Sam Powell preached recently, injustice can really drive you mad. Saying ‘but did he cheat on you” is like you may have a stage four liver cancer, but….do you have a tumor on your elbow???! Sigh.

      1. And my original point was actually a response to Redheadwords! If you think the special physical abuse will certainly invoke mercy in their skewed books…don’t hold your breath. When there is no mercy, there is no mercy.

        How do they not see that a Shepherd is to guard the sheep from wolves who come in sheep wool inside the flock? I just see this picture: A wolf eating a sheep who is still alive. Shepherd comes and tells the sheep to hang in there and be quiet, instead of taking his staff and driving the wolf away, and tending to the sheep’s wounds. Sometimes he even helps the wolf finish her off. How absurd!?

  7. Thank you again – I really appreciate your responses to each statement. I didn’t know how to articulate this back when I was getting out, but I love continuing to learn how to respond well, and I try to encourage other women in abuse situations as God sends them into my life.

  8. These church people are so stupid. Plenty of women have been murdered by their husbands without being hit even once. One of the things my ex got great pleasure from was making me struggle for breath. When I told an apparently sympathetic church elder that my ex was dangerous, the church elder literally scoffed at me. He considered me equally blameworthy for not being able to just “work things out”, and even worse, had supported my ex in getting himself a new victim.

    1. Hi and welcome to the blog. 🙂

      I changed your screen name to ThirstingForRighteousness, as a precaution. If you want us to change it to something else, just email The woman behind the curtain: — she will be happy to assist. 🙂 (For most of our readers, it’s not safe to use their real name on this blog, as their abuser or his allies would then be able to identify them.

      We always like to encourage new readers to check out our New Users’ Info page as it gives tips for how to guard your safety while commenting on the blog.

    2. I had to change your screen name again. When you submit comments to this blog, you might have to manually alter your name in the ‘name’ field before you hit the ‘submit’ button. The two comments you’ve submitted so far gave a name that looked like your real name. Your device might be inputting that name automatically, and if so, you will have be change it manually yourself. Email TWBTC if you need help with this.

  9. THANK YOU for posting this truth which speaks against the lies of twisted Scripture.
    I appreciate the passionate words in this post:

    To people who lay this cruel garbage on victims, I say go. Just go. Go away and learn what God means when He says He desires mercy, not sacrifice. Close your lips. In the meanwhile, we are done listening to you.

  10. OF COURSE he wants me back. He’s now forced to cook, clean up after himself, do his own laundry, handle his own calendar, and he has no one to rape. DUH.

  11. One I heard was: “Everyone has a cross to bear.” My response was that even Jesus reached a point where He couldn’t carry His own cross because He was so beaten down and exhausted. Simon carried it for Him and I think that’s important to note.

    1. We can look at these examples of Simon carrying the cross for Jesus and know, Jesus truly was fully human. Jesus really does know our pain and suffering. Endears Him to us all the more!!

    2. Another reply to that is, “No, Jesus died on the cross in my place so that I DON’T HAVE TO. I am not God’s sacrificial lamb. I don’t have to bear abuse as a cross to atone for my sins. They are already atoned for. Jesus told me instead to take up his yoke, and it is light and easy to bear, because he’s already done all the heavy lifting.”

      I really despise when people carelessly imply everything God did is an example that we should follow. Yes, we should be godly and grow in Christlikeness when it comes to imitating His character. But when it comes to the work of salvation, there is nothing to imitate. This was a one-time unique act, and all the glory belongs to Him. Implying people should suffer a “cross” as Jesus did just boils down to works-based religion. It’s putting a burden on my back. I refuse to carry it.

  12. I was told all those too! Plus “I don’t see anywhere is the Bible where it says you can leave an emotionally abusive husband” “He doesn’t say anything bad about you…” “His behavior doesn’t matter it is your behavior that matters” “Well then we will just treat him as an unbeliever” (what does that even mean!!!?) I have only been separated for 4 months and I already have my personhood back! Praise the Lord!

  13. Dear Sasanka……. That image and description of the wolf eating a live sheep and finally helping the wolf ‘to finish her off’, is exactly what happens.

    I may have just about continued to cope with the abuse had not the pastor told me ‘never to contact him again ‘…. It was this comment that ‘finished me off……. I still struggle to believe that a Pastor whom I trusted could be so stupid, so wilfully blind…. It has been traumatic to accept that this actually has happened……. Like having the rug pulled from under me… I WAS up to that point, someone who trusted church leaders…. NOW, I don’t feel I will ever trust again…… I am scared to go into a church and thank God for Jeff’s audio sermons and this site, Barbara, your encouragement means so much.

    My abuse has been nowhere near as severe as some of the terrible stories I have read about… I think I was perhaps more vulnerable to begin with because of mental health problems and having struggled with being adopted …….. I am amazed at the strength of some of the wonderful people posting on this site, which is a source of healing for so many of us.

    I am so grateful that the Lord has, as He promised, not given me more abuse than I can cope with. Even so, sometimes I feel like a wimp compared to other posters!

    1. Dear Tess, I am so sorry what happened to you with your pastor. That must have been very traumatic… I read your comment imagining the situation and it’s like a punch in the stomach, you cannot draw breath. Tess, these people will be so very shocked on That Day when our Lord turns to them with piercing eyes of Truth and Justice and says…”Depart from me, workers of injustice!” Please know that the Lord is with us, and never ever with such ‘pastors’.

      Also, Abby in the next comment nailed it…. It is strange, but true for me as well that the biggest betrayers were not even my abuser husband, but the wicked in-laws, some friends and my pastor…. They are like stubborn children who out of self-centredness do not want their falsely secure world be disrupted. So they throw you under the bus. There was no love, ever.

      Tess, stay strong and draw strength from everyone here…I have been two and a half years out and so so much better. :)) Divorce finalization is around the corner. Things with custody did not go as I hoped, but I trust the Lord. He knows and it will turn out for our best in the end. It will get better. If calamity did not happen to you, you would have kept on trusting wolves. Now you have Real leaders from God counseling you and in time you will be able to find a decent church, by God’s grace. Keep drinking from this stream, you are in wonderful, wonderful hands. Lots of love and blessings.

    2. Oh my dear one. Please honey never compare your trauma to others, in the respect of “hers was much worse than mine.” Because all abuse trauma is outside of God’s will for us. You experienced it, it has damaged you, this is truth. Please do not make small the pain that you have experienced. God surely doesn’t. You are His beloved child, and what happened to you matters. Just as there is no small sin, as all sin is sin; there are no small hurts, it hurt you, and deeply. Abuse is abuse…and you matter.

      1. GypsyAngel…THANK YOU! I often do that after reading some of your horrific stories of abuse…my H “only” cheated on me throughout the marriage and piled on his covert narcissistic abuse through gaslighting, cold silences, mocking, etc….and I now have problems when people reject me or I experience betrayal…I curl into a ball internally and I just want to disappear…I close down emotionally and I know that that isn’t healthy and I do negative self talk because “my abuse wasn’t as bad as others!!”
        So again, THANK YOU for your wise, comforting words! I will be praying for you!! ❤️

  14. Something occurred to me while reading through the comments today. I’ve always said that my biggest betrayers were not my abusers but those who know what has happened and do nothing. It occurred to me that they want to live in this world as children. They don’t want to face down evil, they don’t even want to look at it. There are just so many of these “children.” Our churches are full of them.

    1. So true Abby.
      We find out who are friends truly are when we tell them about the abuse..
      They must then make a choice to stand with us or against us..
      It becomes the litmus test for a true friendship in Christ.
      Some may choose to distance themselves from us once they realize it will cost them something.
      These types never were a true friend.

  15. I love the way you defend victims of abuse, especially at the hands of the church. I can’t wait for your piece on the pastor’s wife. I had a PW take me to the cleaners with her charm and charisma. Fortunately she and her husband left our church. When she visits, she will organize large lunches and exclude certain people like me, and post pictures of how popular she is on social media. This may be small in comparison to outright domestic abuse, but it’s another type of bullying nonetheless. Yep, the pastor’s wife, the most unbiblical role in the church.

    1. Denise, I second what you’ve written!

      And the thing is that those of us awakened to the truth about these types of people no longer take the bait nor do we willingly put ourselves in positions to be discarded. We often end up not attending church at all, and as a result–everybody loses.

      When Jesus lives in our heart He goes with us wherever we go and when we are FORCED (due to many in the church who prop these abusers up by not calling them out or by refusing to play their games or allowing them to perpetuate their games against others) a true believer is harmed as well as the extra strength that comes with many true believers worshiping together, is lost.

      1. You nailed it. I was discarded like yesterday’s garbage. She and I had a history. Our kids are good friends and graduated together. I’m not a mere acquaintance. This is done deliberately to hurt me for an [?]. This happened at the heels of my mother’s death, which proves your point that she lacks empathy. It’s frustrating because these types surround themselves with a lot of nice people making them impenetrable to accountability.

        As I get older, I get more discouraged and disenchanted with the church. There seems to be so much cowardly covert aggression and it’s put upon us to mend the relationship. I’m tired of it. God sees it and I take comfort in that.

        I’m starting to get a good sense of red flags even in potential friends by websites like this.

  16. Wow. Can I just say I have heard almost all of these but never heard someone be able to knock them back so well.

    One of the most traumatising things about leaving was the response from family, family friends and even strangers, who contacted me afterwards by letter, phone calls, and texts. It’s so scary how so many well-meaning people can do damage because they buy into an abuser’s story, instead of either minding their own business, seeking to understand why they are feeling so affected by the events. It was very interesting that a good number of the people who tried to pass on messages and get involved who shouldn’t have, had similar traits to my father, terrible boundaries and similar tales of a broken family in their own story.

    So many people spoke to me about reconciliation before asking me anything to do with how I was or reaching out with love and comfort. Jesus reached out with love first. A great comfort to me has been the verse ‘He is close to the broken hearted and saves those crushed in spirit.’ At the end of the day, God knows. He will counsel, comfort us and guide us through the trauma towards healing, through safe friends, counselling, and safe support networks. No victim should have to face an abuser who only wants to continue the cycle.

    Just so you know, this is just like where it speaks about the full-on battle that requires the armour of God. Your story is significant. You matter. Sending love to you all, and I’m so glad to have found this post. I really needed it.

    1. Sending love to you too. That wasn’t the treatment you should have had! As you say, God knows the truth.

    2. Goldie, your words rang true to me as well. I needed to read what you wrote. When my marriage was imploding, my husband broke into my email accounts and began emailing and meeting with my friends. I couldn’t figure out why people that I hadn’t spoken to in months or years were suddenly so concerned about my spirituality. I suddenly figured it out when they all used the same phrase against me—“we have noticed how bitter and angry you are.” My husband threw those words in my face all the time and told me that I was sinning because I would not forgive him. He had enlisted as many people as he could to try to show me that forgiveness meant reconciliation. The absolute worst was when these people began calling my teenage children and tried to turn them against me or used them to spy on me.

      I literally lost every single friend that I had. My friendship list was short, because over the years, he had isolated me and I was only allowed to have friends that he approved of. I also had to leave the church (I had attended for 26 years) because he was able to get the pastor and Elders on speed dial. I have now been divorced for 2 years and if I hear from anyone from his world, those people tell me how sorry they feel for him and how sad he is, and they look at me with contempt. Not one person has ever asked me about the torment I lived under for 26 years and why it took the assistance from the police and a shelter for me to break free. I am slowly making new friends, but it is extremely difficult because I no longer trust people. But to be honest, I am the happiest I have ever been in my life. Good luck to you and God bless.

    3. Yes! I am getting the same….texts with marriage counseling info, people telling me to “work it out” and then letting me know that they went through even worse with their SO and made it through stronger so I can too. Ugh! They never ask why I decided to divorce, they just “want to talk” when all it is is them trying to get us to stay together. And THEY KNOW some of what he has done. One of his siblings was even blacklisted by him for years and treated horribly, but that person is a “stay no matter what” person. Gosh, this is agony!

      And the “you will destroy our child” thing. I agonize over that so much as he doesn’t abuse them. I don’t know that they will ever get it and one of the kids is very disabled cognitively. Torture!

      1. Hi Minangelina,
        When a father chooses to abuse the mother of his children, that is a parenting choice he is making. His abuse of the mother puts her under great stress, and that makes it harder for her to be a good parent to her children. He makes her live in fear, with a heavy load of confusion and false guilt. So she has less energy to focus on her children.

        So even if that father is not directly abusing his children, his abuse of the children’s mother is also indirectly an abuse of the children.

        Some of your kids might find this website helpful: David’s Slingshot [Internet Archive link]. It is a blog where children express their fear, pain and desperation through poems, art, music, and letters.

      2. So even if the kids don’t see the abuse, it is still indirect abuse of the kids? Because of how it affects the mother?

      3. Minagelina,
        I am a victim advocate for a police department. Our officers and DA will charge a father for child abuse if the children witness the abuse of their mother–he doesn’t even have to lay a hand on the child to be charged. Society is waking up to how detrimental it is for children to grow up in a home where there is intimate partner abuse. I know I stayed too long for the sake of my children, because I now see them struggling in their own relationships. What I modeled to my children was very unhealthy. My only regret was that I did not leave sooner — for the sake of my children.

        Stay strong.

      4. Sara, what is hard is that they don’t see much of anything. They are either sucked into their iPads or he says stuff out of earshot. All they see is [a] great dad. Plus his stuff is very covert, very subtle. He has stopped most of the egregious behavior but he can’t accept responsibility for any of it. His stuff is mostly guilt-tripping and covert aggressive remarks whenever I do something he doesn’t like nowadays.

      5. Minagelina,
        I am so sorry for what you are suffering. Yes, it is agony. You said that your children “don’t see much of anything,” which is true. Children do not have the capacity to see or reason clearly because their brains are not fully developed. I just recently learned this, and I wish I had understood what that meant years ago.

        I was a stay at home mom for over 20 years, because I was not allowed to work. Once I told my husband that I was divorcing him, I went to the university and handed them his credit card and registered for classes. When he attempted to make me quit, my resolve to divorce him only strengthened and I know it was the right decision. This spring I will graduate with a degree in psychology and criminal justice. I chose those degrees because of my pursuit to understand my life.

        I have read and written so many papers on domestic violence that a person would think I had all the answers, but I don’t. I did an internship with the police department and became a victim advocate, because I want to help other victims. The number one call we respond to is domestic violence. I hear different variations of my story over and over from women of every race, socioeconomic, and religious background. I cannot give you answers, because you will have to discover them for yourself. But this is what I have learned:

        1) A woman’s greatest vulnerability is her children. Abusers know this and they use the children like a weapon.

        2) One power of domestic violence is the secrecy. The abuser will say that what happens in the relationship is private. Abuse is never private, but a secret. Secrets are toxic.

        3) Victims feel like they are crazy. Abusers use gaslighting techniques to make their victims crazy.

        4) Isolation becomes a prison for victims. The abuser uses isolation to control.

        5) There is a difference between a common or normal relationship and an abusive one or intimate terrorism. If a person has not experienced intimate terrorism, they will probably not understand the tactics of an abuser.

        6) It is easy to fall for the abuser’s con over and over because it is hard to believe we could fall in love with someone who can be so evil.

        7) An abuser will never accept responsibility for their actions because they feel entitled to treat their spouse and children however they feel.

        Minagelina, I truly believe that good will prevail, but it may take years and years. Keep loving your children, be there for them, and encourage them. Their dad is an abuser and he is failing them and he will continue to fail them. Hopefully as your children mature they will see through all of his lies. For my children, their dad’s love is always conditional; therefore, I began telling them over and over that there is nothing they could ever say or do to make me stop loving them. My son asked me, “What if I killed someone?” I told him, “I will visit you in prison.” Loving them through the storm has begun to pay off, because they are beginning to see the depth of his abuse. I got to leave my abusive relationship and I have begun to heal, but sadly, my children will forever crave a relationship with a man that does not have the capacity to love them in the way they need. This is what makes domestic violence so evil. Hang in there. You are a good mom.

      6. Thanks Sara!

        Have you read Don Hennessy’s book How He Gets Into Her Head? It is very very interesting. I am soon to publish a post about it. With your position, training and experience, I think you would find it illuminating. I certainly did. 🙂

      7. Barbara,
        I haven’t read it, but interestingly, it is sitting on my desk in the pile of “to read.” I am glad for the recommendation, I will read it next. One thing for sure, domestic violence is very complex. The more I educate myself, the more I see the need to educate others. Just like so many people within the church, there are many people in law enforcement that are uneducated about domestic violence too. Many officers cannot understand why a woman just doesn’t leave her abuser. It is sad how prevalent DV is.

        Thank you for the time you spend on this blog–it has been a blessing to my life.

      8. Hi Sara, you said

        …there are many people in law enforcement that are uneducated about domestic violence too. Many officers cannot understand why a woman just doesn’t leave her abuser.

        In the state of Australia I live in (Victoria), the police force has been massively improving its understanding and response to domestic abuse over the last few years. Cops get good training now in victimology. And they are doing a lot more than they used to to help victims and prosecute abusers of domestic crime and sexual crime. I take my hat off to them for the improvements they have made. Your police force might like to have a look at what Victoria Police are doing in this space.

        And if you are working on quietly educating a few of the police officers in your jurisdiction, you might like to offer them this: Why Didn’t You Leave?

  17. Yes, Minagelina, and Barbara put it so beautifully. In my own life, I think I was a pretty good mother, but I look back (my kids are adults now) and I see how I was cheated — and therefore my kids — out of being the kind of mother I was capable of being simply because it took all my energy to get out of bed in the morning, take care of what was necessary, keep myself strong against whatever negativity might come my way from him, etc. There was little energy left over for extras — extra joy, happiness, fun, etc. I weep over this. But it was what it was and [I] have to move on.

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